Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 259 Location: Dublin
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #3 on May 10, 2008, 12:07pm »
I wasn't too pushed about it after the trailer at the end of last weeks episode. Usually the trailers picks up perfectly but given it was a carry over story the jump from the tardis to the looks on everyones faces was rubbish. I'm also not a fan of the dark 'warehouse' episodes.
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #5 on May 10, 2008, 6:38pm »
Well we know the Doctor has had a family. When we met him in the very beginning he traveled with his grand daughter, Susan. So in theory he had a son or daughter and a wife at some point. If you want to get into the really geeky stuff.... according to the books published when the series was off air there's all sorts of complex stuff about Time Lords using "looms" to create their offspring. You can find the novel "Lungbarrow" on the BBC website somewhere, but I think RTD would say it's not cannon.
Tonight's episode was really great btw. Am loving this series so far. Every episode has really worked for me. And Georgia Moffat is fabulous.
Joined: Jun 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 976 Location: Glasgow
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #6 on May 10, 2008, 6:55pm »
Apart from the twist with the numbers that was hideously bad, Who by numbers. It only finished 25 minutes ago and I've already forgotten most of it and I think they ducked the big issue by making the daughter [spoiler] a stupid plot device introduced afore the opening credits rather than actually making her a nookie conceived daughter [/spoiler] and the ending was obvious from the moment the director lingered rather too longly on the corpse.
Ah well nice to see Nigel Terry in something as at least remembering "Excalibur" was better than that, worst episode of the season so far - 4/10.
Joined: Jun 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 838 Location: Rosamund Street Viaduct
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #7 on May 10, 2008, 7:25pm »
Well. I really don't want to run it down so I won't. All I'll say is that I'm absolutely dreading the inevitable Doctor's Daughter: Earth Defence spin off.
Joined: Apr 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 236 Location: London
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #8 on May 10, 2008, 7:31pm »
Oh, that was just really annoying all round, right from the "How is she your daughter?" "Oh well gabble gabble gobbledegook" at the start. I wasn't too optimistic when I saw Stephen Greenhorn was writing it, and just like "The Lazarus Experiment" this was just chucking various things at the screen in no particular order. A real shame that this was an opportunity to really break from formula and instead they made it, as Quincy says, Who by numbers.
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,105 Location: Liverpool
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #10 on May 10, 2008, 8:09pm »
It was too slow - it gave you the chance to ask those questions you probably shouldn't. When he was making Bond films, Cubby Broccoli used to have the rule that you moved on so fast, the audience doesn't have the opportunity to say "hang on..." until they're in the car on the way home. After the Doctor was cloned, and it was made clear that this was a regular thing to create an army of soldiers, all I could think was, "well, go on; make some more then. And don't forget Martha and Donna too." But at no point did anyone even dream of suggesting this. It was harmless, knockabout stuff, but it didn't look like anyone's heart was in any of the "emotional" stuff; it looked like perhaps they'd pitched this story to David Tennant at the start of the series - "you get to meet your daughter! Imagine the acting challenges!" - and then he read the script and thought, "well, that's a big cheat" and stopped trying.
I am exempting Georgia Moffett from all of this, though, because I thought she was (a) stunningly beautiful throughout and (b) absolutely charming and personable and full of charisma. Though the episode was "meh" I'd like to see her back just because she was so good.
After the Doctor was cloned, and it was made clear that this was a regular thing to create an army of soldiers, all I could think was, "well, go on; make some more then. And don't forget Martha and Donna too." But at no point did anyone even dream of suggesting this.
Erm, yeah they did. Donna was all 'how very dare you' at the idea.
I loved this episode. Plenty of light and shade, a good mystery and some nice characters. Reminded me a bit of Star Trek: Next Generation but this is only a good thing.
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #12 on May 10, 2008, 8:44pm »
I'm not surprised at the negative feedback, seeing as the doom mongers were circling before it was even aired.
I rather enjoyed it, not the best episode ever, but it ticked all my boxes. As others have said, Georgina Moffat is a real find find and I'm sure she'll turn up in the future, although hopefully it'll come as a bit of surprise when she does.
Joined: Apr 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 77 Location: London
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #13 on May 10, 2008, 9:26pm »
It felt like it needed to be a two-parter to be done properly, and turned out slightly weaker than earlier episodes because they shoved too much stuff in.
This seems to be the series for random killings when they don't feel necessary (I mean the lovely fish/man). Are they deliberately trying to make it merciless so as no-one's too shocked by the inevitable bloodbath finale? Because all this death is beginning to make me uncomfortable. I suppose it's supposed to be the juxtaposition of the Doctor's mercy with the-
What am I talking about? Argh.
Yeah, I didn't much like it, and I didn't like Jenny. Donna was, of course, ridiculously awesome. Martha, surprisingly, was not. Fish killer.
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,105 Location: Liverpool
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #14 on May 10, 2008, 9:50pm »
God, I totally forgot about dead fish man. Martha was totally Fiona ("I'm not very bright and I haven't got my glasses on")in that. She tripped over nothing at all, slipped down a hill, and then just faffed about screaming for help instead of being her usual amazing self. That was not Martha. Perhaps her evil clone didn't die after all.
EDIT: and if we're talking themes for the series, is this not the fourth story where the Doctor inspires/watches over the creation of a new legend? The Adipose were born before his eyes, the Romans worshipped him, the Ood took him as inspiration, and he leads the Hath/human colony by example. Plus the Sontarans' plan was to make the Earth their own nursery - is there a theme of new birth going on here?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 9:53pm by jetsetwilly »
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #16 on May 11, 2008, 8:02am »
Thing was, when Martha was in the mud having a flap, why didn't the FishKettleMouthGuy just take his belt off and use that as a rope to drag her to safety?
They were only a foot apart and that belt was HUGE.
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #17 on May 11, 2008, 8:46am »
I thought they had some interesting concepts which, like others said, may have been better as a two-parter. That's been true for several episodes this year. I enjoyed most of the episode. Instead of a spinoff for Jenny, I keep imagining her as being a possible Faith, not given enough guidance and going into a downward spiral.
Freema has done such a great job as Martha from Smith & Jones on, in a very difficult part. The companion who replaces the iconic Rose, who loves a Doctor who doesn't love her back, who then leaves and becomes a UNIT operative with an invisible fiancee. She deserved a chance to come back, but aside from most of her first Torchwood episode, they've often struggled with what to do with her. Cloning, kidnappings, tied down. If they bring Martha back again, I really hope they work on what to do with her, instead of just bringing her back to be the companion in peril. The best part of her return has been her lovely relationship with Donna.
Donna continues to be one of the best companions ever, but I cringed when she said she wanted to travel with the Doctor forever. Next week I hope she doesn't say, "Doctor, let me repair this freighter so we can save the dinosaurs!"
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #18 on May 11, 2008, 9:38am »
I liked Martha having a companion, that was quite fun. Killing him was just so lame and predictable, though.
I love the Donna/Martha dynamic, but I'm also fed up of poor old Martha always ending up in peril.
I presume Jenny will be back reasonably soon, then. I also quite liked the way the Doctor's emo 'woe iz me i iz b last time lord' bubble got burst again for a bit.
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #19 on May 11, 2008, 10:10am »
I didn't dislike it, but I didn't like it much either. I thought it was quite dull. Jenny was OK, but I'm not bothered whether or not we see her again, although it looks like we will.
Donna elevated it slightly for me. I enjoyed her bits the most, such as working out the dates/numbers.
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #20 on May 11, 2008, 10:35am »
Well I really enjoyed it. It was funny, entertaining, had an interesting conceit and the trademark Who cheesy ending wasn't too bad.
There were some scenes that brought it down but they seemed to be more about trying to shove so much plot into a short period of time than serious weaknesses. Catherine Tate was brilliant (excepting the 'her name is MARTHA' bit; we get that she cares about people) and Freema was pretty good when the script actually called on her to do something. It probably would have worked better as a more developed two parter, but as it was I enjoyed it, and bits of it I loved.
Re: Doctor Who 4.06 - The Doctor's Daughter « Reply #21 on May 11, 2008, 10:43am »
It was the first episode that of this series I found annoying.
What was Martha doing there? She should have read the thankless script and then left - there was no real point to her apart from she made friends with a fish and then let him die.
In fact why were any of them there? a paradox within a paradox! I hope they don't continue such logic.
The ending was taken directly from The Search For Spock (1984).
The doctor needs a 'daughter' like Itchy and Scratchy needed Poochie
Freema has done such a great job as Martha from Smith & Jones on, in a very difficult part. The companion who replaces the iconic Rose, who loves a Doctor who doesn't love her back, who then leaves and becomes a UNIT operative with an invisible fiancee. She deserved a chance to come back, but aside from most of her first Torchwood episode, they've often struggled with what to do with her.
In a way I agree but in another I think her return has been handled alright.
In terms of action in the actual stories she hasn't been given much but with the 'returning companion' aspect they've played it really well. Martha main contribution has been the person whose been there, seen that and come out the other end and can maybe see things that the Doctor and especially Donna don't and these have been the best moments of her return. I do think this has helped prevent Donna and The Doctor developing into the borderline hateful figures The Doctor and Rose were sometimes. In that respect I think it was better handled than Sarah Janes return which I felt was a bit wasted (but it did lead on to The Sarah Jane Adventures).
Though I do think they did know what to do with Martha in this episode, the point was clearly to put her in the Doctor shoes with a companion in tow however it just didn't work too well because they just didn't have the time to develop it and had to spend most their time on the main plot. It should have been a two-parter.
I did enjoy the episode though even if the daughter thing was a cop-out. Like I said before this series has been fun but there has still yet to be any standout moment... any surprises (and no Rose popping up does not count, if anything it worrying that a show with such possibilities is only surprising us with these finale trailer moments), it all been following the comfortable formula and by this point they should be taking more risks.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 2:11pm by cathybradford »
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