|
Post by David Hunter on Aug 2, 2006 11:06:13 GMT
A gay friend of mine in his 50s has a new younger bf and they met through their love of Judy and Marilyn!
It struck me as odd that Judy & Marilyn were still gay icons for younger people. In fact, at my local establishment a gay waiter of about 18 hadn't heard of either.
My gay icons are probably people from when I was growing up and stick in my mind as strong women. All strange choices, but, Noele Gordon (dear Nolly), Valerie Harper as Rhoda, and maybe even someone like Yootha Joyce as she's a very camp woman but strong with it.
I just wondered if anyone had any unconventional gay icons, and who all the young folks idolized nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by Nurse Dunkley on Aug 2, 2006 11:26:27 GMT
I have lots of idols that no straight boy would ever idolise. The top three are Trisha, Fearne Britton and Billie Piper (which has been the case since before she set foot in the Tardis). They're just fun, lovely, glamorous strong womenI also have the James Dean love, though that's quite common with the bummers.
In fact I've got a list as long as your arm of icons, over 80% of which are women. Heather Mills is quite high up, which I think is quite rare. I really admire her for all the animal rights stuff, and not really caring what people think of her. All the bullying she gets from the tabloid hacks really pisses me off.
I have never heard of Judy and Marilyn.
EDIT: Oh of course! You mean Garland and Monroe! Sorry, I was thinking of some transvestite Richard and Judy type team. I do think Marilyn is great and brings an amazing presence to anything I've seen her in. I don't really know anything about Judy, except she's got a mad daughter.
|
|
|
Post by [james] on Aug 2, 2006 11:29:30 GMT
My MySpace idol list is crawling with ladies that straight men only have wet dreams of and never give the proper time of day. Alice Ayres, Bernie Nolan, Bree Van De Kamp, Cheryl Tweedy Cole, Eliza Dushku, Jessica Fletcher, Rose off the Pipettes, Skinny Little Nancy Callaghan and Su Pollard.
|
|
|
Post by David Hunter on Aug 2, 2006 11:39:12 GMT
hmm. Very interesting. Say Judy, Liza, Marilyn, Barbra to any gay man over 30 and they'd know exactly who you mean. I had to google 90% of your list [james], only knowing Bernie, Bree, Cheryl, Su and Jessica Fletcher!
Who would be a lesbian icon? Martina, KD and Ellen all being givens!
|
|
|
Post by klee on Aug 2, 2006 11:40:11 GMT
There's a Marilyn Monroe impersonator who must be in his early twenties to be found 'boo boopy dooing' his way over Manchester at the weekends. He uses the urinals in clubs though, conclusively proving that he has no concept of glamour or mystique and is therefore a rubbish Marilyn.
In our house we have a simple gay icon checklist. If they're a "strong, beautiful woman who has suffered in life and love" they're in.
Hence, Kylie (who I don't like much on the grounds she's the patron saint of rubbish hairdresser gays) only attained 'icon' status recently because frankly she hadn't suffered enough. Going out with Michael Hutchence doesn't count as suffering, although making someone listen to an INXS album must technically count as torture under the Geneva Convention.
My own personal gay icon is Siouxsie Sioux, though I do reserve a soft spot for Liza. Bloated, druggy and hoarse she may well be, but Lord could she suffer with a big showbiz smile on her face. Now that's star quality.
|
|
|
Post by Nurse Dunkley on Aug 2, 2006 11:41:30 GMT
Anyone off Bad Girls for the lesbians. Or Cell Block H if they're a bit older.
[/stereotyping]
And I will never call The Tweedy The Cole. It's not right, and chances are it'll be changed back in a few years.
|
|
|
Post by [james] on Aug 2, 2006 11:43:09 GMT
And I will never call The Tweedy The Cole. It's not right, and chances are it'll be changed back in a few years. Hopefully a few months. The more I look at him, the more he scares me. And also the more mobile phone jokes that come to me.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian on Aug 2, 2006 11:44:00 GMT
Cheryl Cole. I hadn't thought about that. I like it.
It's a bit Colbys / Dynasty. She could work that marvellously.
A
|
|
|
Post by klee on Aug 2, 2006 11:48:19 GMT
I still prefer Nicola. She's more endearingly rubbish. And, being a fake Geordie myself, I find it difficult to countenance glamour with a Byker accent.
Cheryl always sounds to me like she should be serving me a Greggs pasty - or shrieking at her boyfriend in the Bigg Market at 2am before flouncing off for a taxi with a blue WKD in one hand and her shoes in the other.
I made a libellous joke about Ashley Cole in a stand-up routine the other week. It got bigger gasps than a joke about suicide bombing - thereby proving the world is fucked up.
|
|
|
Post by David Hunter on Aug 2, 2006 13:06:33 GMT
In our house we have a simple gay icon checklist. If they're a "strong, beautiful woman who has suffered in life and love" they're in. You see that almost works until I go to list Lizzie Birdsworth and then the beautiful part fails. I also love Carol (raspberries) Channing. But then she has suffered and come out stronger. Have you seen the intercut clips of Carol and Liza on Youtube?
|
|
|
Post by klee on Aug 2, 2006 13:56:07 GMT
Have you seen the intercut clips of Carol and Liza on Youtube? I haven't, but you've now given me keywords to search for tonight. Carol Channing's amazing. She's the American Dora Bryan, except more silver lame than polyester. What about Burly Chassi Shirley Bassey? She hasn't suffered much but I bet her assistants have.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Aug 2, 2006 15:51:54 GMT
Shame on you junky. What about Ireland's own icons - Twink and Linda Martin. I know Linda's an icon because the cover of VIP said "Why I love being a gay icon by Linda Martin"
Twink must be practically deified these days.
|
|
ruthie
Su Pollard
I'm not Miss March, Miss May, or Miss anything else! I'm Miss Madolyn Hayes and I own this dump!
Posts: 276
|
Post by ruthie on Aug 2, 2006 16:02:00 GMT
Enya?
I only suggest her as one of my former-boyfriends-who-turned-out-to-be-gays idolises her to the point of obsession.
Kylie's a given - Housemates have turned our living room into a major Kylie shrine.
And Shirley Bassey, although she may have more of a Welsh following I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by David Hunter on Aug 2, 2006 17:27:24 GMT
I thought Ireland's gay icon was Rose Marie! Or is she more Northern Ireland?
|
|
|
Post by Bungle on Aug 2, 2006 17:59:45 GMT
There's a little bitterness in Lorna Luft's biography of her mother towards The Gays, mainly because she felt that both Judy and Liza had been led astray by gay men who had essentially lied about their romantic inclinations, only to let them down later. She does have a point, but I must say that Luft herself sounds like a right grumpy bitch at several points, and doesn't really qualify her statement.
She actually complains about a very sweet story where a London cab driver, ten years or so ago, recognised her and, with tears in his eyes (allegedly), said how sad he was about her mother's passing. Luft was grumpy that he wasn't recognising her for her own (fairly minimal) talent. Whereas I can't believe that I could ever have someone tell me how sad they were at a parent's passing without being quite touched.
Anyway, modern icons? Billie... err, pass beyond that. The Oberman in a few years, hopefully.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Aug 2, 2006 20:33:23 GMT
I thought Ireland's gay icon was Rose Marie! Or is she more Northern Ireland? She's more Northern Ireland, and actually more mainstream UK. If you can believe it. I still regret not buying her triple pack CD for 2.99 the last time I was in ASDA...
|
|
|
Post by David Hunter on Aug 2, 2006 20:37:09 GMT
She sings like Frank Carson in a wig, but we love her!
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Aug 2, 2006 20:42:09 GMT
I really think you should find out more about Twink, Mr Hunter. You might be more than smitten. She's a frosted denim goddess who's a mean old bitch and the mother of Ireland's Charlotte Church. This is in addition to her career as chanteuse and actress. Not to mention her very succesful toilet roll advertising campaign.
|
|
|
Post by klee on Aug 2, 2006 21:25:59 GMT
I thought Ireland's gay icon was Rose Marie! Or is she more Northern Ireland? I saw her in panto when I was about six or seven. She was Jack, Les Dawson was Dame Trot, the experience was probably (along with a secret crush on He Man) what tipped me over the edge into homosexuality. Her version of Love Changes Everything could have been used to clean glass. I once heard Lorna Luft do a decent version of Time Heals Everything from Mack And Mabel but I wouldn't cross the road to see her. However, has anyone heard the recording of Liza's comeback concert at The Albert Hall? She comes on stage and starts singing (well, she could be grating her vocal cords with sandpaper it's difficult to tell)... I took my bottle of pills and I threw them away, I gave up the booze and went back to AA Everyobdy, Liza's back!The sound of thousands of gays squeeingThat's how you do it.
|
|
|
Post by Bungle on Aug 2, 2006 22:09:43 GMT
I'd love to hear that! Where would it be available...?
Lorna 'I don't want to talk about my mother but I will sing her songs and write books about her to make some money' Luft mentions that she no longer talks to Liza. Anyone know why?
|
|
|
Post by Sparkle on Aug 2, 2006 22:12:58 GMT
I'd love to hear that! Where would it be available...? Lorna 'I don't want to talk about my mother but I will sing her songs and write books about her to make some money' Luft mentions that she no longer talks to Liza. Anyone know why? From IMDB - Her candid memoir "Me and My Shadows" created a big rift with father/producer Sidney Luft who is also trying to pitch a book. It also hasn't helped mend the longstanding feud with half-sister Liza Minnelli, who felt Lorna sold out their mother. Since the book has come out, Liza has backed out of a Carnegie Hall tribute to Judy that Lorna was hosting, and Lorna was a no-show at Liza's wedding extravaganza to David Gest, claiming she was booked to perform at a "gay Mardi Gras" in Sydney, Australia.
|
|
|
Post by David Hunter on Aug 2, 2006 22:54:31 GMT
Oh God, the shame in knowing all this!
I have 'Liza's Back' on my iPod. It's the show produced by David Gest and Liza's like his puppet throughout the whole thing. When she goes from 'Never Never Land' into 'Over The Rainbow' you think the audience is going to explode.
Lorna Luft does a great rendition of 'Time Heals Everything'. She sang it as part of her London show where she did all the clips of her and Judy and duetted with her mother via old footage. From her time on Loose Women I think she said she's back in touch with Liza since she dumped Gest, claiming Liza was in 'a strange place'. As for her bitterness towards gay men in regards to Liza and her mother, Lorna dated Barry Manilow as a girl so don't know where she's going with that one.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Aug 3, 2006 8:54:57 GMT
I saw Loran Luft last time she played in London. I didn't pay. She was fairly bad, and was upstaged by the 40 year old clips of her mother. Shame.
However, the best thing of the night was the very loud American gentleman talking to two old English dears in the row behind us. He was gabbing away about how he always comes to London to see the theatre and how they really ought to go and see Dame Judi Dench in the play at the Donmar.
At that time Dame Judi was not appearing on the London Stage. I wanted to hear more but Lorna Luft insisted on coming back on.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian on Aug 3, 2006 9:40:16 GMT
I really think you should find out more about Twink, Mr Hunter. You might be more than smitten. She's a frosted denim goddess who's a mean old bitch and the mother of Ireland's Charlotte Church. This is in addition to her career as chanteuse and actress. Not to mention her very succesful toilet roll advertising campaign. Bernie and Rose Violet!!!! Wow. They were hilariously rubbish but oh-so-funny. Twink, of course, became a celebrity through the wonderfully named group Maxi, Dick and Twink. A
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Aug 3, 2006 9:47:20 GMT
Seems there are a lot of Irish here...
|
|