"Shut up, Les."

[Steven]

Well, that was long overdue.

It's nice to see Todd back on our screens after such a protracted absence (where has he been?) and hurrah for him sticking up for himself in the Rovers.

On the one hand, this was a nice scene to have, because it was one of those nice community scenes that Corrie does pretty well. I like the fact that when Todd implored the patrons of the Rovers to tell Les to shut up if they were on his side, Roy and Hayley were the first to do so (it seemed fitting, even if Hayley was trembling as she did so). And then the standard few seconds of silence before Deirdre and Frankie chipped in, and then everybody else shouting "Shut up, Les" and Les leaving.

But, on the other hand, it wasn't the best-acted scene in the world (Bruno Langley was having a bit of an off day for starters) and it did just seem a bit dramatically superfluous, and maybe even a bit implausible (people seemed pretty quick to blame Todd for Sarah going into labour early and the baby dying, why are they suddenly all on his side?).

Still, I reiterate that it was a nice scene to have.

[Andrew*]

I enjoyed it too. And I loved Frankies impression of Karen and did she also make a reference to the bowls team being like Girls Aloud with stretch marks? Or did I imagine it?

[James & The Jaunty Nyasu Vibes]

andrew* said:

I enjoyed it too. And I loved Frankies impression of Karen and did she also make a reference to the bowls team being like Girls Aloud with stretch marks? Or did I imagine it?

Yes she did! It was the greatest Pop-Culture/LowCulture/Popjustice hybrid crossover moment in history.

As you can tell I was rather excited.



Now, as for the re-emergance of the whole "gay" thing, the "shut up Les" was alright, if a bit cheesey, but the Martin bit with "Queers can bash too" and "i dont hate gays!" was so shoe horned in...it was like they decided to resolve everything in one big go. Ughh.

[Adrian]

It was rather fantastic, simply because this really needed to be said.

I thought the earlier scenes between Karl and Todd were a little, well, boring. Except the bit about Todd having nice eyes.

But I was whooping along with Todd and all-the-others during that scene. It was interesting as well, how they brought Hayley's storyline back to a more forefront position.

Although it did feel a smidge forced, it was still worth it.

-A

[James & The Jaunty Nyasu Vibes]

Something this made me realise is just how lazy a device Les is. Whenever they need someone to be bigoted or stupid about something they wheel him out. Every single time, even when it sort of goes against his character.

Didnt he try to object to Roy & Haley's wedding? He doesnt seem like the kind of person who would go that THAT much effort over anything.
[seriously though, why did he? i cant remember]

[QuincyMD]

But doesn't the whole Rovers scene come across as being a rubbish and lazy device.

A month ago the whole street hated him for killing the baby and now they all love him, it's like there has been a missing episode where a little kitten was saved from a steamroller by Todd.

It made no sense in the context of the show other than to say "look not only Eastenders can do this sort of thing really badly."

[Cherubic]

James said:

Something this made me realise is just how lazy a device Les is. Whenever they need someone to be bigoted or stupid about something they wheel him out. Every single time, even when it sort of goes against his character.

I thought this. I can understand him making insensitive comments or not appreciating that something is offensive, but I don't think it's realistic that he would be the only one to behave like that. If I'd have written it Cilla woiuld have led an assault, with Les following behind, and possibly some surprising people could have supported it. Betty looks to me a bit homophobic. And Penny King. And Hayley could have said more than shut up. It was the swift disposal of a plot that they didn't know what to do with anymore.

How do you get a job writing for Corra again?

[Deleted]

Cherubic said:

How do you get a job writing for Corra again?

In terms of this episode, you become Jonathan Harvey, writer of Beautiful Thing and Gimme Gimme Gimme.

However, you then kind of ruin it a bit by writing some iffy dialogue and get Bruno Langley to say it in a really flat, can't-be-arsed way: "I want to touch you, and hold you, but I'm not gunna."

I liked the climbing-a-hill metaphor, though, and the wonderful main scene where The Gays and The Transsexuals stood up to The Bigots in The Local Pub Of PC Values.

Hoorah!

[QuincyMD]

...but the Asians must still own the corner shop!

Maybe one day soap operas will get ethnic minorities right but I doubt it.

[Steven]

Cherubic said:

If I'd have written it Cilla woiuld have led an assault, with Les following behind, and possibly some surprising people could have supported it.

Not wanting to criticise your story ideas or anything, but I'm not sure that'd be any more plausible or dramatically satisfying.

While Cilla might seem the obvious choice, she's pretty much persona non grata in the street, isn't she? She doesn't interact with anyone barring Les, Janice, Leanne, Fizz, Kirk and Chesney, which is a pretty small social circle by soap opera standards. She's not well-known or liked - most people would know her as the woman who got Rita put in prison, or the one who broke up Janice's marriage. If Cilla let an assault against Todd in the pub, there's no threat of other people joining her campaign; Liz would tell her to sling her hook and no one would pay her any attention. As lazy a vehicle as Les is, at least he has ties to the street, has interacted with these people for years, and there was that nanosecond where you thought people might agree with him; if not vocally, then at least lending him credibility by not coming to Todd's defence. There'd be no shortage of people coming to Todd's defence with Cilla on the attack; no one listens to a word she says when she's being nice, much less when she's on the affront.

What would have made it really interesting would be if it came from someone from whom it really would have mattered, someone who's known and respected in the street, like Audrey, for example. Or Sally, or Deirdre. Someone who is generally regarded as a balanced and fair person (obviously with Sally I use the term "balanced" somewhat loosely) and someone with a lot of friends. Or, if you wanted to make it really dramatically potent, they should have done this scene with Todd and Jason before Jason came to terms with his brother's sexuality. That would have been a really interesting storyline to explore in depth.

But then I think they've put Todd through enough. He's already been harassed for his sexuality in the street enough times. Most of the time in soap there has to be at least one scene where the formerly-harassed-newly-come-to-terms-with-their-sexuality bummer shouts down the bigots in the local, and at least this way it was over quickly. If they'd stretched out the whole angle of "look what you stand to lose if you come out" much longer, I would've lost my patience with Corrie altogether.

[Cherubic]

Pandarama said:

Not wanting to criticise your story ideas or anything, but I'm not sure that'd be any more plausible or dramatically satisfying.

I do accept your points, but they don't detract from the fact that the use of Les was inconsistent to say the least. He's only an arsehole to Hayley when he can remember. And from the point of viewof Les' character, cowardly following makes much more sense than being crowned gay basher in chief. Even if Cilla had just goaded him into it (He's giving you the eye you know, etc) I wouldn't have minded. As Corronation street prides itself on it's characterisation (rather than it's plots, at least traditionally) it seems more important to me that Les is written well than we have more homosexual excitement and fun. The idea that Cilla would be quickly shouted down isn't too much of a problem as they obviously wanted such a quick change of popular opinion that it's surprising that they didn't roll Jean Alexander on in a wheelchair with a sweet sherry Bacardi breezer, a spangled boob tube and singing I Will Survive. It seemed such a shit way of rounding off the storyline and if it hadn't lead up to Hayley's emotional breakdown it would have been a total waste of time.

What is this Corrie business anyway. In my family (hailing from the backstreets of Manchester as we do) it's always been Corra, and long shall it remain. I blame that Tina woman who does the soap review for Lorraine Kelly, I really do.

[klee]

"Ida Fag" is a creation of genius.

*Looks at himself in mirror*

"I've been out with worse."

And Frankee really seems to be going from strength to strength too. The Girls Aloud remark will stay with me to my dying day.

But as for Karl. If he'd given Todd one more of those My Soul Magnifies the Lord looks I may well have had to reach through the glass and throttle him.