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Post by elmsyrup on Jul 4, 2004 1:37:13 GMT
Over two hours of the history of gays in the media and not one mention of lesbians. Huh?
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Post by jamie on Jul 4, 2004 1:46:03 GMT
I watched a bit and taped this[Edit- this=the rest] I thought it was rather good.
And I was completely shocked when I saw bette bourne interviewed on it. I saw him in a play last year where he was amazing and I'd never heard of him before then.
I didn't realise much of the culture-y stuff, I loved the bit about danny larue dressing up as a man at the end of his show.
And Paul Grady as Lily can be hilarious.
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si
Su Pollard
Bad Wolf! No biscuit!
Posts: 460
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Post by si on Jul 4, 2004 9:26:14 GMT
I think it was specifically looking at camp light entertainers, elm. Can lesbians be camp?
I like the eighties stuff -- Graham Python, Kenny Everett -- they were so funny, I can't believe the stuff the got away with (Parky and Cupid Stunt talking about a gay doll?!) Shame there wasn't more mention of the genius Freddie. I also didn't realise polari became popular through Round The Horne.
It was a decent enough programme, if a bit depressing. I'm glad they showed lots of activists slagging off people like Norton too. You all know that I like to wear my activist hat.
How was the BGO Jamie?
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Post by jamie on Jul 4, 2004 9:32:59 GMT
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Post by audrey notwhatsheusedtobe on Jul 4, 2004 9:36:44 GMT
I was soooo obsessed with Larry Grayson when he did the Generation Game. In fact the first sentence I ever uttered (ask my mum) was "shut that door". (Although I'm not sure that this counts as a first proper sentence, as it was strictly speaking mimicry and not original language production.)
It's a bit disappointing that Graham Norton is the future of camp telly. He is not in the same league as so many of the people featured on the show. Kenneth Williams, Kenny Everett, Grayson etc etc were comedy geniuses, whereas Norton is a bit 'lowest common denominator'. I loved the suggestion that he should have Peter Tatchell on the show. Maybe Tatchell would perform a citizen's arrest on Norton for crimes against light entertainment.
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adam
Slabface
100%
Yeah, Jackie... Who wants to know?!
Posts: 41
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Post by adam on Jul 4, 2004 9:37:48 GMT
I thought this was really really excellent.
I never realised how different the UK was with respect to gays up to such a short period ago.
Brian Dowling was looking particulary nice...
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si
Su Pollard
Bad Wolf! No biscuit!
Posts: 460
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Post by si on Jul 4, 2004 9:41:12 GMT
Brian -- shame he fucked it up.
He goes on about how proud he was to be the first openly gay presenter on kids telly and though SM:TV got progressively more and more dire without Cat and Ant 'n' Dec, he wasn't too bad on it.
Why then go down the Norton route and host some degrading trash like Brian's Boyfriends?
I can't under.
I'd like to see more of Tatchell on telly too.
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Post by audrey notwhatsheusedtobe on Jul 4, 2004 9:49:51 GMT
I'd like to see more of Tatchell on telly too. Tatchell is great. We do need more of him on telly, but instead we get human rights lite in the form of the self-admiring, blundering Michael Moore.
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si
Su Pollard
Bad Wolf! No biscuit!
Posts: 460
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Post by si on Jul 4, 2004 9:54:17 GMT
He's getting a hammering around the release of 911, isn't he?
One of my modules this year touched on MM's work and like you, my argument was that he can no longer be successful in fighting the system because due to his large cash divvies, he is the system. His whole schtick is based on the (mis)conception that he's a blue collar everyman... who now happens to have more money that he knows what to do with. That's the backlash.
Tatchell still lives in a grubby flat, doesn't he?
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Post by audrey notwhatsheusedtobe on Jul 4, 2004 10:07:01 GMT
Moore just peddles very basic sensationalism. He is so fucking smug. I really went off him when he had a go a Charton Heston. OK, he's an idiot when it comes to guns, but I don't see how getting an ancient guy with Alzheimers to invite you into his house and then blaming him for all the wrongs in America is 'smashing the system'.
He is such a one-trick pony: "I'm so controversial because I criticise my own country" whereas Tatchell addresses human rights in a more global way.
Mind you, if F911 does get Bush voted out, I won't be complaining.
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Post by David Hunter on Jul 4, 2004 20:41:32 GMT
Was I halucinating or was there a nanosecond clip in this show - when they were showing background history of passing decades - of PM Ted Heath dancing with Jackie Onassis? Now that camp!
I'm amazed at the earlier comments tho of how different things were in the 'old days,' and that you didn't know. When I was about 8 Larry and John Inman were the only gay models you saw out there and it was kind of scary. They seemed to be sad lonely old men who were laughed at. And as for 'importuning' celebs - they were whispered about at most (other famous cottagers were Steptoe and Ivy Tilsley's husband Bert in Corrie)! Now looking back at old episodes of 'being Served' Mr Humphries is the only character who had a full life and was always happy. (Coming in dressed as a sailor: 'Well it's so much easier to hitchhike!" And on the phone to his mother who's discovered he's sneaked out in the night: 'Yes mother it was me who put the pajamas on the bolster!")
As for Graham Norton he'd actually be quite funny if he was clever enough to use innuendo. It's sad the mainly straight audience think it's still shocking to say 'penis' or 'cock sucker' or even find it funny. And even sadder for the guests who think it's risque to appear on his show.
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Post by redrydler on Jul 5, 2004 3:41:52 GMT
The Kenny Everett bits brought tears to my eyes. I remember that my parents used to love Kenny Everett, but I was only allowed to watch it if they were tipsy and being morally lax. I think I knew he was a one though. I honestly didn't know there was a gay Python til last night.
I agree mostly about Norton, but in his defence he did talk a bit about his sketches being a straight perception of gay sexuality, and that he felt that it had gotten better. But maybe he's still one of RT Davies' troops going over the top to be shot down when it doesn't have to be about cock-sucking pillow-biting jokes.
It was also amusing to recall my crush on Brian Dowling when he was in BB. Shame that he hasn't got a show now - Brian's Boyfriends was pretty bad, but it wasn't his fault really. They had bad famous for fifteen minutes fodder, a clearly tiny budget, and it was only ever aired at midnight or some such.
If it reminded people that we live in luckier times, and that showbiz is still pretty closeted that's a good thing. Although without the closet spotting CBBC presenters at popstarz would be less exciting.
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Post by redrydler on Jul 5, 2004 3:45:03 GMT
Over two hours of the history of gays in the media and not one mention of lesbians. Huh? I don't know whether lesbians can be camp or not, but I can't think of any pre-nineties lesbian light entertainers. Any ideas? Celluloid Closet has lots of lesbians in (mostly as vampires and evil types), but that's just film.
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Post by zaffra on Jul 5, 2004 13:59:18 GMT
I'm amazed at the earlier comments tho of how different things were in the 'old days,' and that you didn't know. When I was about 8 Larry and John Inman were the only gay models you saw out there and it was kind of scary. They seemed to be sad lonely old men who were laughed at. And as for 'importuning' celebs - they were whispered about at most (other famous cottagers were Steptoe and Ivy Tilsley's husband Bert in Corrie)! Now looking back at old episodes of 'being Served' Mr Humphries is the only character who had a full life and was always happy. (Coming in dressed as a sailor: 'Well it's so much easier to hitchhike!" And on the phone to his mother who's discovered he's sneaked out in the night: 'Yes mother it was me who put the pajamas on the bolster!" Something Graham Norton said was exactly how I felt as a kid. That he found Larry Grayson and John Inman both grotesque, but recognised something of himself in them aswell. I hope revisionist theory doesn't herald them as great comics, because they were both rather feeble really. In fact Norton's humour really is on the same level. They were the nearest thing to gay you would see on mainstream television in the mid 70's, and I was too young to be allowed to watch Monty Python. Kenny Everet was must watch TV, it was originally on past my bedtime, but my Mum let me stay up to watch it, our whole family enjoyed it. We saw Everet as an anarchist rather than gay. I didn't know he was gay until much later on.
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Post by mikemk on Jul 5, 2004 14:23:57 GMT
I find it hard to believe that most of the population did not know that these comedians were all gay, from Larry Grayson's "seems like a nice boy" to Kenny Everett's Stupid Cupid Stunt. Perhaps it was all mass delusion, brush it under the carpet and hope it'll go away.
I suppose Benny Hill was the prime example, chasing girls round parks dressed as a dirty old man.
I'm amazed at what Jules and Sandy got away with back in the 60's however - it was right in your face, we're here, we're queer, campness.
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agnetha
Slabface
It hurts :-(
Posts: 13
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Post by agnetha on Jul 6, 2004 17:49:42 GMT
Not overly camp admittedly but did Russell Harty get a mention at all? If ever there was a closeted TV sleb who was ruined by being outed it was him.
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