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Post by I Hate Lana Lang on Jan 18, 2007 18:09:14 GMT
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Post by jamie on Jan 18, 2007 18:17:25 GMT
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Post by Adrian on Jan 18, 2007 18:24:34 GMT
How ridiculously appropriate.
A
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Post by jamie on Jan 18, 2007 18:39:50 GMT
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Post by pauliepoos on Jan 18, 2007 19:20:02 GMT
The whole backlash thing is worrying though. I also don't like this notion that Jade is defending the working classes - a frequent excuse trotted out by her supporters now. Even on the Guardian Comments area people are saying "but slagging off the working classes for being ignorant is just another form of racism". That view itself is offensive. Are all working class people ignorant, screaming fucking lunatics? No, it's Jade's behaviour people hate. I have a Guardian reading colleague who resents her parents for giving her a middle class upbringing and now lives in a bedsit and wears hand me down clothes from a friend who works at Peacocks and refuses to drink milk because it's evil, and then moans that a Chai Soya Latte costs £3.70 in Starbucks (the most evil company in the world) but still drinks there. Her argument is that Jade et al should be excused their behaviour as they have limited life experience and they shouldn't be condemned as they don't know any different. She also thought I was a bitch to describe Jackiey as special needs, with her arguing again that it's about limited life experiences, whereas I thought she was being both patronising and smug. There's a certain amount you can blame on your education and the way you were brought up, but to some extent you have to take responsibility in bringing yourself up. |
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Post by Cherubic on Jan 18, 2007 20:24:03 GMT
As a qualified, certified and paid up member of the Guardian reading fraterternosorority (Big up the women) I do understand your (slightly try hard) friend's point to the extent that to attach a moral judgement to a person because they are intellectually and experientially deficient is unfair. However a society has rules, and these must apply equally to everyone and therefore whether Jade is responsible for her prejudices or not she must take the appropriate punishment for the unacceptable actions they cause her to pursue. Thus in my mind it is unfair to hate Jade (or judge her morally), but perfectly fair, even vital to condemn her behaviour and demand that society (and therefore BB, endemol and Ch4) demonstrates it's unacceptability.
Saying that, in this specific case there is an argument that at least Jade and Jo know better (not knowing enough about Danielle to say). If Jade is mixed race then she should have an appreciation of the difficulties faced by people of minority races in any society. If she does then she is the moral equivalent of the Oxford tutored Tory MP getting his constituents riled up over 'immigrants' to win an election. If she doesn't then she's possibly clinically stupid. In the case of Jo it is provable fact that she has friends from racial minorities and should therefore one presumes be sympathetic to prejudice against them. Unless she's one of those "I hate all ... except for you Bradley honest" people, who are generally just too lazy to consider the implications of their beliefs, which to my mind is morally indefensible.
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 18, 2007 23:01:33 GMT
Errm, plenty of people with limited life experience and advantages do not operate outside a moral code. I think it is perfectly acceptable to make a moral judgement of somebody who behaves in a churlish, rude, aggressive and spiteful way whatever their advantages and disadvantages in life.
In fact, I don't think people are judging Jade because of her limited experience, they are judging her on her behaviour, and she is responsible for that.
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Post by Cherubic on Jan 18, 2007 23:32:59 GMT
Errm, plenty of people with limited life experience and advantages do not operate outside a moral code. I think it is perfectly acceptable to make a moral judgement of somebody who behaves in a churlish, rude, aggressive and spiteful way whatever their advantages and disadvantages in life. In fact, I don't think people are judging Jade because of her limited experience, they are judging her on her behaviour, and she is responsible for that. Let me puit it this way. You wouldn't blame an angry dog for killing a child because a) it hasn't got a moral sense and b) it didn't make itself angry. Likewise a person with insufficient mental and psychological capacity to fully understand the impact of their actions cannot be held responsible for their actions to the same extent as someone with a fully developed moral coda. Morality isn't innate but developed through our experiences. If those are severely limited then so will be our moralities. If you'd actually read what I said I stated that Jade should be judged on her actions. However a lot of the judgement has taken on an unfair moralistic flavour. The Sun call her 'The Face of Hate' when in fact she is the face of ignorance. The Mirror calls her a Bigot when she doesn't have the developed systematic and justified prejudice to qualify as a 'bigot' so much as a casually racist idiot. She's a fool. An embarrassing, loud, stupid, angry fool. No more no less. I am not making allowances because she has 'had a hard life' but because in her particular case her 'hard life', poor inherent talent, lack of critical experiences etc. seem to have created a person without the moral or intellectual complexity to fully appreciate the consequences of her actions. I will criticse Jade for her behaviour, but to focus solely on individuals relieves society of the responsibility it holds for creating an environment that could create, foster and reward such a person. |
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Post by WhiteNoiseMaker on Jan 19, 2007 0:40:47 GMT
The Sun call her 'The Face of Hate' when in fact she is the face of ignorance. I'm ignorant about the life of the guy who lives next door. I tend to smile and nod if I bump into him in the hall, not scream at him until I start shaking. OK OK so I know you're making far more sensible points than me there but, I do kind of think Jade hates her. |
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charliepops
Jane Asher
Most Slut Potential? Do you love it!
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Post by charliepops on Jan 19, 2007 2:49:05 GMT
Things definitely are getting out of hand. I wouldn't for one moment try to defend Jade or her sniggering allies, but she doesn't seem to be doing anything worse than we have seen on any other series of Big Brother - only this time the media has whipped up a frenzy over alleged racism because it simply hasn't had much else to report on CBB so far.
I think one thing this series has shown though, is just how nasty and sly racism is - you don't have to have a flaming crucifix on your lawn to be a racist, it exists in really mean, underhanded ways.
However, I can't help but think that Jade has become the figurehead of her unholy trinity of witches and is being quoted as saying racist remarks, when in fact, almost all of these have come from nasty little Danielle.
Also, since when was bullying someone over their class better than bullying them over their race?
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Post by David on Jan 19, 2007 6:26:31 GMT
oh no! we've gone all digitalspy! heated debate about gays and why tracy is a legend is fine.. this is a little awkward now i think most people agree - shilpa is a picture of a true lady and someone to aspire to jade is silly and out of her depth but not a fuckin monster things may have got out of hand here Awkward for who? |
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Post by Cherubic on Jan 19, 2007 10:13:38 GMT
Things definitely are getting out of hand. I wouldn't for one moment try to defend Jade or her sniggering allies, but she doesn't seem to be doing anything worse than we have seen on any other series of Big Brother - only this time the media has whipped up a frenzy over alleged racism because it simply hasn't had much else to report on CBB so far. I think that's slightly unfair, especially with the frenzy being led more by the popular will than by tabloid editors whom seem just to be following the popular mood. This time it's just that all the contributory factors (race prejudice, class prejudice, bullying, xenophobia, Shilpa's level of fame and influence, global political events - G Brown touring India) have collided to make it a massive deal rather than merely offensive behaviour restricted to and punished from within the BB house. |
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Post by Adrian on Jan 19, 2007 10:18:29 GMT
I'm not sure anything said here is awkward, and (although I never have, nor never will, read Digitalspy) I don't think we're anywhere near that level.
Cherubic comments are spot on. Essentially - Jade has been made a figurehead in the place of tougher questions about society, because she's a) an easy target b) culpable and c) the media prefer to have someone to go after.
So much of this can be seen to be fanned by media (what other stories do they have to peddle at the moment? some wind?), but in saying that there have been 20,000 complaints.
A
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Post by lowculture.co.uk on Jan 19, 2007 10:40:57 GMT
oh no! we've gone all digitalspy! heated debate about gays and why tracy is a legend is fine.. this is a little awkward now i think most people agree - shilpa is a picture of a true lady and someone to aspire to jade is silly and out of her depth but not a fuckin monster things may have got out of hand here I think it's always dangerous to announce that "most people agree" about any topic, never mind something as sensitive and emotive as alleged racism. And I'm delighted that the readers of this messageboard care enough to have a bit of a think about their position on this issue, instead of just blindly jumping onto whichever bandwagon the media have decided they ought to, or trying to gloss over it by going back to making comments about the size of Jack's knob or whatever. |
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Post by Robbing the Dead on Jan 19, 2007 11:59:20 GMT
Jade's just a cunt.
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Post by zaffra on Jan 19, 2007 12:07:24 GMT
She's a fool. An embarrassing, loud, stupid, angry fool. No more no less. She's the 25th most influllential person in the world - perhaps higher now? |
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Post by David Hunter on Jan 19, 2007 12:23:07 GMT
Will we see Jade with at Christmas with a dance version of Avenue Q's 'Everyone's A Little Bit Racist'? Nothing would surprise me.
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Post by Robbing the Dead on Jan 19, 2007 12:24:12 GMT
The "most 25th infilential" actually. It was nice how she had to get Shilpa to tell her how to say influential properly.
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Post by zaffra on Jan 19, 2007 12:31:34 GMT
The "most 25th infilential" actually. It was nice how she had to get Shilpa to tell her how to say influential properly. Stop bullying me Princess |
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Post by David on Jan 19, 2007 12:49:06 GMT
Not trying to be bitchy, but you work for Spin103.8 - what do you expect?!
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Lisa
Su Pollard
Campaigning for the ghostly return of Toby - always my favourite serial killer
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Post by Lisa on Jan 19, 2007 14:25:20 GMT
I wonder what the people who gave Shilpa such a bad reception going into the house think about all this. For all that is good in the world I hope Jade isn't some sort of truth telling heroine to them now.
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Post by Joel on Jan 19, 2007 17:50:29 GMT
Eeek.
My two cents based on barely watching the show at all:
Jade isn't a racist. She's ignorant and a bit of a bully, and clearly doesn't think through her actions, but she isn't racist.
Jo isn't either. She's desperate to be liked in the house and jumped on a stupid bandwagon and made a stupid generic joke about 'Indians not cooking chicken' rather than anything specifically aimed at Shilpa. She just puts me in mind of the kid at school who's on the outside of a the group and is trying too hard.
Danielle is a nasty piece of work. I can't understand how anyone is claiming there have been no racist outbursts in the house. 'She should just fuck off home, she can't even speak English properly' is pretty unambiguous. I hope Teddy Sheringham dumps her and she has to start shopping at Primark and working in Burger King.
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Post by MoondialSlater on Jan 19, 2007 17:58:15 GMT
I can't understand how anyone is claiming there have been no racist outbursts in the house. 'She should just fuck off home, she can't even speak English properly' is pretty unambiguous. Well you'd think so, however her parents have straightened everything out for us because "fuck off home" is in fact a "term used in a jovial fashion between young people of today" So fuck off home everyone. |
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Post by pauliepoos on Jan 19, 2007 18:41:21 GMT
I actually find Shipla Poppadom comments more offensive than the "fuck off home" comment.
If Danielle had told Dirk to fuck off home, no one would have thought anything, and probably the same if she'd said it to Jermaine, as they're blatantly not British. Seeing as Shilpa lives on another continent I don't think it's as bad as some people think but I can see everyone's point.
I'm sure I would have told Glyn to fuck off home at some point had I been locked in a house with him in the summer.
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Post by David on Jan 19, 2007 18:45:16 GMT
Eeek. My two cents based on barely watching the show at all: Jade isn't a racist. She's ignorant and a bit of a bully, and clearly doesn't think through her actions, but she isn't racist. Jo isn't either. She's desperate to be liked in the house and jumped on a stupid bandwagon and made a stupid generic joke about 'Indians not cooking chicken' rather than anything specifically aimed at Shilpa. She just puts me in mind of the kid at school who's on the outside of a the group and is trying too hard. Danielle is a nasty piece of work. I can't understand how anyone is claiming there have been no racist outbursts in the house. 'She should just fuck off home, she can't even speak English properly' is pretty unambiguous. I hope Teddy Sheringham dumps her and she has to start shopping at Primark and working in Burger King. I think to comment on this, you do have to watch the show. Jade DID make racist comments. Danielle's "go home" comment IS racist and extremely offensive (I have been on the receiving end of that one before). |
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