London's having a 'mare

[pauliepoos]

Now I know threads where people share political beliefs go down a bit like Shane McGowan, but I'm really quite curious to know what London based people are thinking about the forthcoming mayoral election.

The bookmakers seem to think that Boris Johnson is a certainty to win, and the polls seem to have him neck and neck with Ken.

Is Boris's supposed popularity down to the current administration's unpopularity, or a general anti Labour feeling? Or is Boris is a credible candidate and a breath of fresh air? Is Ken hated and wanted rid of?

Watching Boris on Newsnight last week he came across as an amatuer, like someone on the losing team in a sixth form debate (but then still more interesting than the leaders of the 4 parties in Wales).

[LoveMusic]

The idea of Boris for mayor terrifies me, he couldn't keep up with easy conversation on Have I got News for you.

[Adrian]

Boris is a laugh, innit.

A friend of mine seriously said: "London is a crazy city, it needs a crazy mare". That friend is a fool.

He has made the election about stupid fucking issues like hating bendy buses. BENDY FUCKING BUSES. I don't really care if people like one type of bus more than another, it should be remembered that nobody could get a bus a few years ago until Ken / Labour changed things around.

I wouldn't say Ken is hated, but I guess as he's in a position of authority, he will always be disliked for some reason or another.

[coxy1979]

The whole thing is a bit of a joke really. It's basically a political X-Factor where we being asked to choose on personality.

Boris is a buffoon and the idea also terrifies me as much as LoveMusic.

I might vote for Brian Paddick, but my cynical side tells me that he's there to attract the gay vote.

[frapperia]

After seeing him grilled on a politics show yesterday afternoon, my allegiance has shifted from Boris (who, admittedly, I had shit reasons for voting for) to Brian Paddick, who held his own and whose policies held up to scrutiny.

[David]

Apr 14, 2008 11:01:39 GMT @frapperia said:

After seeing him grilled on a politics show yesterday afternoon, my allegiance has shifted from Boris (who, admittedly, I had shit reasons for voting for) to Brian Paddick, who held his own and whose policies held up to scrutiny.

You weren't seriously considering voting for Boris Johnson were you?

Sample quote from 2001:

"If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men; or indeed three men and a dog."

[frapperia]

Embarrassingly, I was for a bit. I've never seen that quote before, David!

[David]

I think a Ken-Brian/Brian-Ken vote is the only way to go. It's depressing that a vote for Brian Paddick is considered a 'wasted vote' - as long as it is used in combination with a Ken vote, then I don't think it is.

Charlie Brooker, as usual, sums it all up nicely in today's Guardian. He must be looking at the same, ridiculous Facebook groups.
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/14/charliebrooker.boris

[frapperia]

I think that's really depressing, but I bloody hate Ken. Like seriously hate the man. I will not vote for him at all. I don't want him back in.

[David]

Problem is, if you don't vote for Ken, you get Boris.

[pauliepoos]

Apr 14, 2008 11:42:03 GMT @frapperia said:

I think that's really depressing, but I bloody hate Ken. Like seriously hate the man. I will not vote for him at all. I don't want him back in.

So what is it that riles you so much? His personality, his political convictions, the party he stands for, the changes that have been made during his time as Mayor?

What I should have said in my opening post is that I've yet to hear anyone say they'll vote Boris because they like what he stands for. They like that he's a Tory, and that he isn't Ken Livingstone, but no one has said anything slightly positive about him and his abilities.

[frapperia]

I will vote for Brian Paddick because I like what he stands for. I like some of Ken's policies (mainly the environmental ones), but cannot conscion voting for someone I completely detest. He is a vile, nasty man. I like Boris' personality, but he would be a mess as London Mayor, and the debates and grillings I've recently seen confirm for me that I couldn't vote for him.

[marknyc]

I love Ken. I enjoy waking up to amazing ideas like free bicycles and an official London carafe.

He's been around long enough to upset just about everyone somehow but I cannot get my head around the idea of voting conservative simply because you have had your feelings hurt once. Is London really lacking any kind of ideology?

I much better understand the support for Brian Paddick, but as an American I am still shell shocked from the time Ralph Nader muddied things enough for George Bush to walk away with the election. I'm terrified of the anti-Ken voters who don't see that a Paddick/Boris or a Boris/Paddick ballot makes zero sense politically are going to hand the election to Boris.

[Rad]

Apr 14, 2008 11:40:47 GMT David said:

I think a Ken-Brian/Brian-Ken vote is the only way to go. It's depressing that a vote for Brian Paddick is considered a 'wasted vote' - as long as it is used in combination with a Ken vote, then I don't think it is.

So how does a Ken-Brian vote work? Are you allowed to vote for two people? Or a mayor/deputy? Or 1st choice, 2nd choice? Forgive my ignorance, I've not paid huge amounts of attention to the story other than who's in the running and how popular they are.

I do get people's point about how a vote for a minority party could get an unwanted rival into power, but I hate how that gets used in campaigns by politicians.

For example, Sheffield is always a tight run Lib Dem/Labour set up in most constituencies, but in ours the Greens have a good shot. The Lib Dems often put 'don't vote Green' in their leaflets because they reckon a vote for Green might give Labour more chance. But why can't someone prefer Green over LD/Lab? (Mind you, the Lib Dems are the only ones that ever actually bother campaigning here anyway - I have no idea which parties are contesting my seat in the May elections other than the LDs, although I assume Labour, Green and Conservative will be running as usual)

Labour did a bit of that in the last general election, urging people not to vote LD in case the Tories got in. I just find that depressing - why shouldn't we have a multi-party system? If we always have the 'vote for us, we may not be your preferred choice, but we're better than the Tories/Labour etc' attitude, we'll never move on.

I'm not criticising people for thinking like that, particularly in London where I suppose it is likely that the minor LD candidate has no chance against two big characters. You're no doubt right. But as David said, it is really depressing.

[David Hunter]

Am I allowed to comment as an outsider? Good. As a regular visitor to London I think Ken has done a fantastic job. There was a 10 year gap where I wasn't able to go and on my return I couldn't believe how clean the place now was and how much safer I felt. The public transport was great too.
Granted if I lived there I'd probably be complaining about congestion charges and goodness knows what else (a friend who lives there complains bitterly he can't find a public toilet, but I think that's for other reasons), however sometimes people can't see the positives for complaining about the negatives.

[David]

Apr 14, 2008 12:17:52 GMT Rad said:

So how does a Ken-Brian vote work? Are you allowed to vote for two people? Or a mayor/deputy? Or 1st choice, 2nd choice?

It's a form of proportional representation, so you get two votes - first and second preference. I assume that the first-choice votes will be counted, and then if neither Ken nor Boris reaches the threshold for outright victory, then the second choice votes will be counted to establish a winner. This is where second preference voting is important - it would be hoped that Ken voters will choose Brian Paddick as their second choice, and vice-versa. With those combinations, I would hope that Ken would win. However, it is difficult to see where Boris' second preferences would go to. In reality, I think it would be the BNP and UKIP for those who are voting for him for political reasons (sic(k)). I would hope that those who just like him for his personality - virulent racism, homophobia and allegedly sanctioning violent crime amongst other marvellous traits - wouldn't even bother to go down to the polling station.

The most optimistic scenario in London is for Ken to be returned as mayor, and Brian to be deputy.

[Rad]

Is it possible that Ken or Boris could be mayor and the other be deputy mayor then? That would be really odd.

[LoveMusic]

Apr 14, 2008 11:11:59 GMT David said:

Apr 14, 2008 11:01:39 GMT @frapperia said:

After seeing him grilled on a politics show yesterday afternoon, my allegiance has shifted from Boris (who, admittedly, I had shit reasons for voting for) to Brian Paddick, who held his own and whose policies held up to scrutiny.

You weren't seriously considering voting for Boris Johnson were you?

Sample quote from 2001:

"If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men; or indeed three men and a dog."

That is awful. I will be telling that to everyone I know to make them vote properly.

[jetsetwilly]

This month's Attitude features interviews with Ken, Boris and Paddick, and it's hilarious* reading him writhe. There's one point which goes something like:

[Attitude talks about the gay marriage/man and dog comparism]

Boris: Yes, well, actually I think you'll find that it was taken out of context, it was just something I said off the cuff on television...

Attitude: It's in your book.

Boris: Is it? Oh.

I really, really, really hope Boris does not get in, because it would give him a credibility he doesn't deserve and it would stuff the transport system just as it's wheezing onto its feet. Plus, for the next four years there are going to be a whole load of build up to the Olympics events beamed around the world, and do you really want Boris to be the face (and hairstyle) of London internationally?

*When I say "hilarious" I must make clear that I am laughing at his suffering and torment, and I am not indulging in Brooker-damned LOLS.

[David Hunter]

Apr 14, 2008 11:11:59 GMT David said:

Apr 14, 2008 11:01:39 GMT @frapperia said:

Sample quote from 2001:

"If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men; or indeed three men and a dog."

He's got the Vauxhall vote then!

[Feral]

You London types get a 2nd preference vote, right? So you can vote Paddick / Green Woman, and when s/he gets knocked out, your vote can then go to Ken.

God help you if Boris!LOL1!!!LEGEND! gets in.

Hopefully, though, now King Charlton has spoken, the populace will listen to his sage advice and do the right thing.

Edit:

Sorry, missed your post, David.

[somethingbiblical]

This is my friend Ross pouring a pint over Boris Johnson's heid at Edinburgh Uni:




Seconds earlier they had posed for an exceptionally cheery, arms-round-one-another photo.

The comments are comical cause it was bloody funny.

[Deleted]

That is amazing! And I like Boris, as a comedy character. As a serious political figure, he's a complete joke.

[Cherubic]

An internet test told me I was a Ken man, so I'll be voting Ken then Green woman. Brian seems to have been parachuted in as a good idea at the time, but one that hasn't perhaps lived up to expectations.

Saying that, if I had to do a candidate it would be he.

We still haven't got to the bottom of Frap's Ken hate.

[als]

I was unsure about who to vote for before I read this thread, now I'm even more confused!
I won't be voting for Ken though, I can't stand him and after watching that Panarama documentury thingy a while ago I can't help but think of him as an alcholic bully whose basically a complete cunt.
The only campaining I've had is leaflets from Boris giving statistics of Ken's cock-ups, not massivly positive and not really telling me how he would do any better. I've barely heard of Brain Paddick, but I'm not a total hermit so it's a bit annoying that most of the media are ignoring him.

Would someone on here mind explaining the difference between the three candidates policies? I've always felt that as a young (well, 19) person nowadays that you are expected to automatically understand politics without anyone actually explaining the difference between the parties. I always feel any opinion I voice is dismissed because I don't know the history and the policies well enough, but schools don't seem to feel the need to teach any more recent history or use all the bloody tutor period time the government insists on to help young people understand things better.

Wow, rant over. Hope that made sense!