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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 12:47:19 GMT
Post by coxy1979 on Jun 7, 2007 12:47:19 GMT
If, as Coxy1979 has quite justly pointed out, it's the word more than the context or the person saying it that would cause offence then surely she should be just as culpable for using it in the house. Erm, that's not I meant by context. I meant the historical context of the term she used, and the power that the term still has. She shouldn't be bandying about words if she doesn't understand the meaning behind them. There are lots of comparable terms that we won't go into here. I agree with the C4 decision.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 12:55:47 GMT
Post by El Capitan on Jun 7, 2007 12:55:47 GMT
Sorry, I meant that bit. All I'm saying is that surely Charley, having by her own admission used the term before, should be subject to the rules of BB on using such offensive terminologies, which by definition should be enforced regardless of ethnicity.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 13:06:23 GMT
Post by Muinimula on Jun 7, 2007 13:06:23 GMT
I am also going to reserve judgement until I've seen the footage.
It hardly seems comparable with CBB, though, I would say. However offensive the word, it's not like Emily was being derogatory behind Charley's back. She was using a word that Charley has used, to her face, in some kind of attempt to be 'matey' with her. Stupid thing to do, given the events of January, but not worthy to be a "race row", as the news is branding it. Her opening night mission to be an intelligent blonde certainly seems to have fallen flat, doesn't it?
I would imagine Davina will put the next guy into the house tonight, so as not to let down the eviction crowd.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 13:27:48 GMT
Post by MoondialSlater on Jun 7, 2007 13:27:48 GMT
Emily: It's not a big deal though is it? Charley: Not for us it ain't. I may end up liking Charley now purely based on this response.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 13:31:02 GMT
Post by Cherubic on Jun 7, 2007 13:31:02 GMT
I like the idea that Davina makes these decisions herself, on the hop.
"Oh Fuck, another racist bitch, throw in a gay, ply them with booze and put someone in a secret wardrobe where everything is upside down, quickly!"
El Capitan - I think you're wrong that words don't have added meaning depending on who says them. If Charley says "I'm a nigger" she robs the word of any real power because she's taking it as a description of herself on her own terms. Although Emily probably didn't mean anything by it she's calling Charley it on her terms, not Charley's, which as a priviledged and apparently stupid white girl who doesn't know Charley carries a much greater level of ambiguity. If Big Brother didn't punish her for it then they would be seen to be condoning this harm causing use of the word (as they were with Jade, Jo and the other one) and not dealing with racism. If they punished Charley they'd look like censorious fools.
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fused
Su Pollard
Posts: 405
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 13:35:50 GMT
Post by fused on Jun 7, 2007 13:35:50 GMT
Emily really must be fucking thick. Thinking she could get away with using that word on TV is idiotic enough, but it really transcends the realms of stupidity using it on a show that earlier this year received a record number of complaints, lost thousands in sponsorship deals and has been rapped by Ofcom regarding race issues and will therefore not be taking any chances this time round.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 13:57:03 GMT
Post by zaffra on Jun 7, 2007 13:57:03 GMT
I imagine Emily will see the folly of her situation and now fall into a dignified silence on the matter.
NOT
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:04:01 GMT
Post by David Hunter on Jun 7, 2007 14:04:01 GMT
Bagpuss will be so ashamed.
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dirtypop
Jane Asher
Only Lee Will Do!
Posts: 207
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:07:32 GMT
Post by dirtypop on Jun 7, 2007 14:07:32 GMT
I'm sure the acting roles will just be flooding in now.
Silly girl
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:10:36 GMT
Post by El Capitan on Jun 7, 2007 14:10:36 GMT
I understand your point Cherubic, but surely the show looks more stupid for punishing one person for using a word, yet entirely disregarding another who has used that same word just because as a black woman she is 'more qualified' to use it. There is clearly a list of buzz words floating about in BB legislation which lead to instant disciplinary action upon their utterance. It doesn't matter the difference in skin tone, if Emily is to be punished for using the word 'nigger' in a non offensive context, so too should Charley be.
And that's my two cents.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:29:36 GMT
Post by Cherubic on Jun 7, 2007 14:29:36 GMT
Does anybody actually think like that though?
If a posh dickhead called me (or someone else in my presence) faggot (say) I'd be more pissed off than when my friend Miles calls it himself all the time. Channel 4 object to what people are going to object to, and no one is going to object strongly to Charley saying nigger because it is presumptuous to determine how she might describe herself.
Words are just symbolic representations of thoughts and concepts. Banning all use of certain words is stupid, because the thoughts behind them shift in differing situations and contexts. So a 'bad' word used in conjunction with a 'bad' thought (or the suspicion of one) is bad. You can be suspicious that Emily may be racist against black people in a way you never could have Charley, and therefore her use of a 'racist' term is less acceptable. BB don't know that Emily isn't really racist and so rather than being seen to support her must punish her to be seen to be doing justice.
If they were good mates and were calling it each other in jest that would be acceptable. But they aren't and they weren't so it isn't.
That's my £20.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:40:22 GMT
Post by al on Jun 7, 2007 14:40:22 GMT
The thing is, there are set regulations for the use of certain words in broadcasting. Ofcom state that the use of the word 'nigger' is only acceptable when said by one black person to refer to another (or themselves) in a non-derogatory context. However, this still can't be shown earlier than 9pm.
I guess that kind of justifies Emily being punished for it. The debate now seems to relate more to whether it was the right punishment or not.
Yet, with the racial stigma attached to Big Brother after the Celebrity edition, I'm surprised Charley wasn't called up on it before, regardless of her colour.
Muinimula has the right idea though - I'm also going to wait until tonight before I get all grey wig 'n' gavel on Emily's ass.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:41:04 GMT
Post by klee on Jun 7, 2007 14:41:04 GMT
And, don't forget that this comes a week after Channel 4 and Endemol were forced by Ofcom to apologise not only for 'Shilpagate' but also for having attempted to cover up the use of racially sensitive language.
Had they attempted to laugh this one off they would have seen advertisers pull out (Pepsi has already come out and said it won't advertise on Big Brother) and Ofcom would have got involved again.
Big Brother is Channel 4's summer season cash cow. The last thing it needs is an advertising boycott, a big fine or another scandal (especially as questions are being asked about it receiving state funding).
Hence Emily gets the boot. It's only the second week and she's only a teenage girl that the viewers and housemates didn't like much anyhow. In terms of a sacrifice it's hardly crucification, is it?
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 14:44:08 GMT
Post by David on Jun 7, 2007 14:44:08 GMT
This is interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NiggerThe word did specifically start out as a European term for an African slave, so its use under any circumstances is abominable. The point about reclaiming words is interesting. Like Cherubic, I would not tolerate my straight friends using words like "faggot" or even "queer", but would find them less offensive, if at all, if they were said by a gay person. Just because Charley or Nicky say they were not offended does not mean that the term was offensive to the audience - as a white person, I am offended by that word, regardless of racial background. After the CBB debacle, there is no way she could be kept inside that house - the only surprise in the sorry escapade is that it took seven hours to get her out.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 15:02:19 GMT
Post by El Capitan on Jun 7, 2007 15:02:19 GMT
That's exactly my point. If Channel 4 wants to promote themselves as a truly equal opportunities station, with Big Brother straddling the zeitgeist of racial tolerance then surely they can't be seen to be more lenient on someone of one race than someone of another when both have committed exactly the same misdeed. If they let Charley get away with it under the excuse 'It's OK, she actually is black', then to my mind we're watching racial inequality in all of its glory. It's a two way street, after all.
And that's my 5,000 yen
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 15:39:01 GMT
Post by Cherubic on Jun 7, 2007 15:39:01 GMT
How much is a yen worth?
But as outlined above Ofcom guidelines disagree with you. Black people can say nigger about other black people because is more acceptable. The word itself is irrelevent. Charley can say nigger all she wants unless another black person is offended by it and tells her so.
Now lets all shut up because I'm sick of typing racist insults.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 17:32:45 GMT
Post by xenomaniac on Jun 7, 2007 17:32:45 GMT
Big Brother must be overjoyed that they get to correct the mistakes they made in January. The cynic in me is very suspicious.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 17:59:03 GMT
Post by pauliepoos on Jun 7, 2007 17:59:03 GMT
Remember Craig. Promised to be bitchy and opinionated, became the obsessive stalker of a arsefaced retard and the familiar to prejudiced bastards who quite openly hated him. Quoted for truth! I've never been so angry in my life at Big Brother for allowing someone like Craig into the house. I'm positive he set back the gay rights movement by one thousand years. I haven't heard this particular cliche for such a long time I thought it was worth highlighting. Just goes to show you're allowed to be gay, as long as you're the right kind of gay. Back to the Emily debate, I agree with everything Cherubic has said and will be exalting him when I get the opportunity (not that it'll do much good).
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 18:07:14 GMT
Post by Cherubic on Jun 7, 2007 18:07:14 GMT
I should point out I don't actually value 'bitchy and opinionated' as character traits. I just think that some vile cretin with a spine is preferential to a groping perving mincing Uncle Tom.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 18:44:22 GMT
Post by Nurse Dunkley on Jun 7, 2007 18:44:22 GMT
Bagpuss will be so ashamed. I am pleased she has gone, because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to laugh myself silly at this line. Otherwise I will wait for the footage, as I think the manner in which these words are said and the intent behind them is an incredibly important factor.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 18:59:31 GMT
Post by Steven on Jun 7, 2007 18:59:31 GMT
Big Brother must be overjoyed that they get to correct the mistakes they made in January. The cynic in me is very suspicious. This is kind of my problem with it. I haven't been watching, so I'm basing this all entirely on Stuff Wot I Read On The Internet And Heard In The Office, but to me it just feels like C4/Endemol will act instantly to punish anyone who says or does something seriously offensive, unless they're a celebrity. The stuff that happened in CBB was infinitely worse than this, and they stood by and do nothing. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, and they've actually learnt from their mistakes and subsequent punishment from Ofcom, but part of me thinks they find it a lot easier to say to someone "you're a racist and you're evicted" when that person is not Jade Goody.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 19:01:43 GMT
Post by thelovelykate on Jun 7, 2007 19:01:43 GMT
This is the transcript from MSN: Emily: I'm friendly with plenty of black people. This is a posh white person's way of saying "Err.. I don't actually have any black friends but I'm not a racist, honest guv!" It's up there with :"I'm not homophobic! Some of my best friends are gay!" (That's right, best friends that have never previously been seen or indeed mentioned)
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 19:06:44 GMT
Post by Nurse Dunkley on Jun 7, 2007 19:06:44 GMT
This is the transcript from MSN: Emily: I'm friendly with plenty of black people. This is a posh white person's way of saying "Err.. I don't actually have any black friends but I'm not a racist, honest guv!" It's up there with :"I'm not homophobic! Some of my best friends are gay!" (That's right, best friends that have never previously been seen or indeed mentioned) At least she didn't say "some of my servants are black!".
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 20:45:33 GMT
Post by Nicholas on Jun 7, 2007 20:45:33 GMT
This is a posh white person's way of saying "Err.. I don't actually have any black friends but I'm not a racist, honest guv!" It's up there with :"I'm not homophobic! Some of my best friends are gay!" (That's right, best friends that have never previously been seen or indeed mentioned) At least she didn't say "some of my servants are black!". They're from Downend. They won't have servants.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 21:08:46 GMT
Post by Nurse Dunkley on Jun 7, 2007 21:08:46 GMT
That's probably the reason she didn't say it then.
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