Lisa
Su Pollard
Campaigning for the ghostly return of Toby - always my favourite serial killer
Posts: 454
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 9:48:47 GMT
Post by Lisa on Jun 8, 2007 9:48:47 GMT
I think people saying that what was said was the most ignorant thing they've ever heard is a tad of an exaggeration. To say this is so because she didn't understand the meaning of the word is churlish. I can't imagine that Charley understands either. Maybe if she did she wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to refer to herself thus. I should imagine Charley does have a fair understanding of the term nigger and why it is so offensive. Not just because she's black, but becuase I think most people do. Emily was incredibly ignorant and naive to use it, and then arrogant to try and convince herself and others that it wasn't a bit deal.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 11:01:13 GMT
Post by Steven on Jun 8, 2007 11:01:13 GMT
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 11:09:49 GMT
Post by El Capitan on Jun 8, 2007 11:09:49 GMT
Oh, they're fucking loving it. Give a young girl a social stigma she's probably never going to be able to shake off and ratings go through the roof.
It depresses me that I number among the 4.6 million.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 11:19:52 GMT
Post by David on Jun 8, 2007 11:19:52 GMT
I sat down and watched the who thing with my housemates. It was the black one who was the first to say 'Is that it?' Well, if the black one says it's OK, then what are we bothered about? It doesn't matter that Charley or Nicky said they weren't offended, it was the fact that a white person used that word with no idea of the connotations of it. I'm getting a bit tired of hearing the justifications for using that word - it is not acceptable to use it. I don't give a toss about debates on semantics and cultural relevance. That word comes from the Spanish word 'negro' which means 'black'. In the 1600's, the word was used specifically to refer to African slaves who were taken by force from their homelands to work for white, European slavemasters. After emancipation, the word was used to repress and to threaten, to try to maintain a class structure that determined that any person who was not white was not fully human. THAT is the reality of using that word. It hasn't changed meaning just because some black people have tried to 'reclaim' it, and it has not lost its power.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 11:57:22 GMT
Post by starchy on Jun 8, 2007 11:57:22 GMT
Emily irritated me when she was in the DR saying "I'm a nice person... I've got a big heart...Emily's not racist...what about my stuff?..I'm a nice person"
No Emily, you are not a nice person. You are a ignorant, arrogant little madam who thinks that pouting, and talking like you are five, will get you out of trouble.
And the fact that she called Chanelle an "uneducated bitch" makes her even more repellent.
I'm glad she's gone.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 12:10:22 GMT
Post by klee on Jun 8, 2007 12:10:22 GMT
Emily epitomises the kind of upper-middle class children (I'm not going to dignify them with the epithet adult because they're not) of whom I'm seeing an increasing amount. They've had a gilded upbringing where they've had the best teaching (but never learned anything for themselves; have lots of money but have never earned any of it; and are aware of their rights, but not the responsibilities that go along with them.
Socially she could have been hatched from an egg. She's probably only ever been allowed to mix with people of a comparable social status to hers. She's also probably never had the word "No" used at her as well.
This kind of person usually does need bringing down a peg or two.
To do it on national TV though, possibly overkill. I'm not crying any tears for her though.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 12:28:18 GMT
Post by Geo on Jun 8, 2007 12:28:18 GMT
I blame 50 Cent for all of this.
The word has become somewhat glamourised thanks to all the shit R n B culture of the past 5 years, what can we expect when a generation of white kids have become so desensitised to it thanks to them constantly blasting out the latest Eminem or 50 Cent album.
Ive heard plenty of white school kids bandie about that word on buses or trains, not because they're being racist, just simply because they've heard it in music..
She definitely wasn't being racist, just trying to be urban and cred. Im absolutely not condoning her saying it, cos it was completely stupid thing to say, but I do genuinely believe there was no malice behind it, just a posh torie middle class white kid rather silly and misguided attempts at trying to fit in with another culture.
That said I dont think anyone should be using the "N" word no matter what colour/race you are, its just a vile word and it should be consigned to the history books.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 12:35:00 GMT
Post by sweep700 on Jun 8, 2007 12:35:00 GMT
She was stupid to use that word and very ignorant. I remember watching an Oprah discussion on whether it had been 'reclaimed' enough to be able to use commonly and the consesus was no. It's too imbued with horrific elements of history - and the present - and it has not lost any of its stigma. You just can't use it.
On a side note - I heard the other day that the word 'nice' used to mean 'promiscuous' and of course 'politician' used to mean evil and duplicitous (!) Some words do change meaning with time but that one just hasn't. It can't be used. Despite all the cynical publicity of it all, they were right to make a stand and remove her. It's unacceptable.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 12:58:50 GMT
Post by georgie on Jun 8, 2007 12:58:50 GMT
It was quite uncomfortable to watch her 3.30am rollicking but they did the right thing.
What annoyed me a bit was, to me, it seemed like at first Charley was just shocked that it was said and said she wasnt offended by it, and then seemed to realise it was a term that only affected her within in the house and therefore started to make more of a big deal out of it.
It shouldn't have been said and Charley does have a reason to feel upset that it even came into conversation, I just felt like it suddenly hit her later that if she started talking more about it, it was going to get her more attention from other people? Or maybe I just dont like Charley hah!
My flatmate (who is black) also had a point, she said if that word just slipped out into conversation, if she was charley, she'd be worried what Emily was thinking about her for it to pop up in the first place
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 13:07:57 GMT
Post by El Capitan on Jun 8, 2007 13:07:57 GMT
From how casually she used it, I can see the point. I just thought she possibly does have a number of black friends to whom she uses the word (My best friend is black and we tend to engage in that type of banter - though nigger is not a word we commonly bring up in fairness.) I thought that if she was in any way uncomfortable around Charley as a black woman then she would have been entirely more cagey about using it.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 13:09:55 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 8, 2007 13:09:55 GMT
Calling someone overprivilidged isn't the same as discriminating against them on class terms. She IS overprivilidged, fact. And in my view, it's a bad thing that people are allowed to be overprivilidged. You can say someone IS poor. She is also a bitch. I wasn't relating the two terms, byraway, she's overprivilidged and she's a bitch.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 13:17:13 GMT
Post by David Hunter on Jun 8, 2007 13:17:13 GMT
My mother reminded me that when I was little our neighbour's dog was called 'N*gger' and no one thought anything of it!
Recently a woman in Canada sued as she received a new leather sofa and printed on the label 'Colour: N*gger Brown' The manufacturers blamed an old version of their softwear which translated the colour 'Dark Brown' from the original Chinese.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 13:52:45 GMT
Post by David on Jun 8, 2007 13:52:45 GMT
Smited for arguing against the use of racist words. Clever.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 14:51:57 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 8, 2007 14:51:57 GMT
Oh, they're fucking loving it. Give a young girl a social stigma she's probably never going to be able to shake off and ratings go through the roof. I'm not denying that Endemol are loving this, but I think it's daft to say that they've given her this social stigma she will now carry - she gave herself it by using that word. It doesn't matter whether she was chucked out or stayed in - people now see her as ignorant or racist, and they would have thought that (and chucked her out tonight) even if BB hadn't already put her out. Whether you think BB handled it badly or not is a different thing, but it is most definitely Emily's fault that people now see her in that way. Jade Goody is now branded ignorant and racist, yet she was treated by BB in a totally different way. I'm not saying BB have handled things spectacularily in either situation, and I know they are loving the ratings boost both incidents have given them, but it seems they can't win, can they? When they don't show things or chuck people out they get blamed, when they do show things and chuck people out they get blamed.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 15:03:04 GMT
Post by pauliepoos on Jun 8, 2007 15:03:04 GMT
Smited for arguing against the use of racist words. Clever. Surely you should exalt someone for arguing AGAINST the use of racist words? No?
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 15:10:33 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 8, 2007 15:10:33 GMT
He was saying he was smited for it.
What does 'pushing it out' even mean?
Emily said "you're pushing it out, you nigger", not "you're pushing it out, nigger", which seems to imply that a) it was directed straight at Charley and b) it meant that it was bad to be a 'nigger'. Even if she didn't directly mean it like that, the implication is there.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 15:16:46 GMT
Post by pauliepoos on Jun 8, 2007 15:16:46 GMT
He was saying he was smited for it. Oh right. I read it as that he'd smited the previous poster. During the Shilpa incident, Derek Laud was interviewed and described racism as whether you are able to see past the person's colour. Jade of course wasn't racist as she was mixed race herself and we all know about Jo's cousin who is married to an Indian. And thus Emily can't be racist as she has so many black friends. I really do wonder though if she saw Charley as an equal or if in Emily's eyes she lived up to the stereotype of a rude and fierce girl. The sort that Tyra sends up from time to time on ANTM. And my final thought. Last year on Big Brother, Aisleyne was called a Wigga and Richard was called a fucking faggot. And no one really cared. Now people do care more, which is a good sign.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 15:20:57 GMT
Post by The BBC Insider on Jun 8, 2007 15:20:57 GMT
I am not being hypersensitive but Channel Four done the right thing. Absolutely. Surely Emily knew that some members of the public would have been offended by a black girl being called a nigger in a 'joking way'. Come on. Get real. You just don't say that to people, I would never ever say to my friend, "Oh you are one amazing bum bandit" or something like that. Emily called Charley a nigger and she's only known her a week.
Rappers use the word because they feel they can somehow 'reclaim' it and use it in defiance but really, they're just adding to the problem because they're being used to excuse it by people looking for a get out of jail card.
It's all good being liberal but sometimes people can be too liberal and accepting of anything that's said in a 'joking' way when what is being said is totally wrong.
Nicky, let me end this by saying, is superb.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 15:28:36 GMT
Post by Adrian on Jun 8, 2007 15:28:36 GMT
Calling someone overprivilidged isn't the same as discriminating against them on class terms. She IS overprivilidged, fact. And in my view, it's a bad thing that people are allowed to be overprivilidged. You can say someone IS poor. She is also a bitch. I wasn't relating the two terms, byraway, she's overprivilidged and she's a bitch. I don't really know what you mean by the term 'overprivileged'... to me, it seems like a term based entirely on her class. And since when wasn't 'bitch' a generically sexist term? Incidentally, should all you white people out there be writing the word on an internet messageboard? A
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 15:45:39 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 8, 2007 15:45:39 GMT
Privilidged and overprivilidged are totally different things. I'm privilidged, but I don't think I'm overprivilidged. I guess the sense I'm using the word in is more of a character trait - she has it all, she knows it, and she's shoving it in your face. I wouldn't say all people who have lots of money are overprivilidged.
Bitch - well, I've always called men bitches, to me it would mean a sort of whiny, nasty arsehole. And I'm not saying that in an Emily "must justify self by pretending I don't mean it like that" way, I don't mean it like that. I'd call women bastards too, incidentally, though thats a term usually applied to men. But I see your point, that was bad of me. Oh wow, do you think I'll cause a 'sex row?'
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 18:40:14 GMT
Post by Steven on Jun 8, 2007 18:40:14 GMT
Incidentally, should all you white people out there be writing the word on an internet messageboard? Have you been dying your skin again, Adrian?
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 18:52:23 GMT
Post by MoondialSlater on Jun 8, 2007 18:52:23 GMT
And the fact that she called Chanelle an "uneducated bitch" makes her even more repellent. I'm glad she's gone. Me too but I've realised it was my Emily dislike that was clouding my judgement at how repellent Chanelle is as well. I also notice a lot of time it was Emily who held Charley back from going off on one. Now she's gone I'm expecting a major argument to come between Charley & Chanelle/Ziggy soon.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 19:06:02 GMT
Post by pauliepoos on Jun 8, 2007 19:06:02 GMT
Having seen her on BBLB I wish Vanessa Feltz had interviewed her instead of Dermot.
I don't understand how (paraphrasing here) she acknowledges what a horrible word it is she used and how she understands why people have been so offended, and then says she hears it around her all the time.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 19:33:50 GMT
Post by starchy on Jun 8, 2007 19:33:50 GMT
I don't understand how she can call herself a "very liberal girl" Isn't she a Tory? A very liberal Tory?
And what was all that about her and Charley being bestest mates. Charley who's life is bullshit? Seems to me they only became friends, after Ziggy started spooning with Chanelle. Hardly the solid gold friendship where you can say whatever.
Although, I did feel quite sorry for her when Vanessa said that she was crying during the break.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 19:43:23 GMT
Post by MoondialSlater on Jun 8, 2007 19:43:23 GMT
and then says she hears it around her all the time. I'd like to know whether she's actually clarified by who though. If its actual black people Emily knows then fine but if its a group of her white friends saying it about a black person then its as offensive there as it is now.
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