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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 21:46:40 GMT
Post by Muinimula on Jun 7, 2007 21:46:40 GMT
I've just thought...
> Big Brother is a representation of society. > Emily is a fan of indie music. > Emily makes racially offensive remarks, and was removed from Big Brother for that reason.
...
> Therefore, fans of indie music are racist, and should be removed from society.
I'm sure there's a flaw in the logic to that argument, but Popjustice would be thrilled.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:02:29 GMT
Post by pauliepoos on Jun 7, 2007 22:02:29 GMT
But what about her stuff!
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:03:29 GMT
Post by Nicholas on Jun 7, 2007 22:03:29 GMT
I know! And "thank you for the opportunity"!
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:10:46 GMT
Post by pauliepoos on Jun 7, 2007 22:10:46 GMT
You can almost hear the groans from Tory Central Office.
What started out as great promise, an out and proud tory teenager, fairly eloquent, very photogenic and media friendly and thus very Cameronian, reduced to nothing by the most ignorant understanding of race relations I've ever seen.
Slightly seriously, I haven't been in education for 12 years - do they not teach civil rights history in schools?
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:16:26 GMT
Post by thelovelykate on Jun 7, 2007 22:16:26 GMT
I almost wanted to feel sorry for her for being so fucking stupid but then rage got the better of me. This rage was brought on by her saying:
"But people at home say it all the time."
What Bristol?! I know it's a bit of a dump but no one I have EVER known here refered to anyone else as a 'nigger'. Even the scumbags I went to dirty state school with didn't use it. I (thankfully) live properly in the city but I have friends who live in back of beyond places like Downend (Warmley and Longwell Green, Bristol fans) and none of them use it either.
I'd just like to let any lowculturers who might be thinking of visiting Bristol know that the vast majority of us aren't casual racists. I do actually feel a bit upset that my city (which I do quite love) has been slandered by association. Sob!
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:19:01 GMT
Post by Nicholas on Jun 7, 2007 22:19:01 GMT
I almost wanted to feel sorry for her for being so fucking stupid but then rage got the better of me. This rage was brought on by her saying: "But people at home say it all the time." What Bristol?! I know it's a bit of a dump but no one I have EVER known here refered to anyone else as a 'nigger'. Even the scumbags I went to dirty state school with didn't use it. I (thankfully) live properly in the city but I have friends who live in back of beyond places like Downend (Warmley and Longwell Green, Bristol fans) and none of them use it either. I'd just like to let any lowculturers who might be thinking of visiting Bristol know that the vast majority of us aren't casual racists. I do actually feel a bit upset that my city (which I do quite love) has been slandered by association. Sob! I was going to make exactly this point, but couldn't remember precisely how she phrased it, so thanks TLK - all of the above is endorsed by me.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:20:16 GMT
Post by The BBC Insider on Jun 7, 2007 22:20:16 GMT
For a girl obsessed with telling other housemates they were badly educated every time they argued back to her, she came across as pretty stupid. In saying that, she didn't seem to comprehend the enormity of her comment until Charley kept mentioning it. Charley the Martyr! Who would have thought it.
The problem I feel is this: we've become so used to certain words that mean things through constant bombardment from US gangsta hip-hop that we've become desensitised. These words are wrong and they're powerful. Emily used it in a joking reference to Charley but the point is she used it in reference to Charley. It's totally unacceptable and people still haven't learned the lessons of Shilpa.
She's not racist at all but she shouldn't get away with what she said. And Charley needs to fuck off. I was so proud of Nicky when I saw how sneaky Charley was and Nicky just said: I'm not running away. That is one classy girl and she's underlooked due to the flashier housemates.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:26:06 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 7, 2007 22:26:06 GMT
People have already said this but yeah it's totally different a black person saying it and a white person saying it. My mum calls herself a dyke in jest all the time - hell sometimes I even call her a dyke (to her, I'd never call her a dyke to someone else - context), but she's my mum, not a random person I met the other day. But if anyone else called her a dyke she'd rip their face off. I might say "God I'm such a slag*" (*Not strictly true) but if a man called me a slag that would be extremely derogatory. It's ALL about context - and the context is simply different in this case, based on colour. If a black person (albeit a deluded black person) said "nigger" to another black person in a malicious way I would expect the same reaction as if a white person said it, but the fact is there's automatically a difference based on race. Especially seeing as Charley called HERSELF it, not someone else, there shouldn't be any punishment for her, cause you can call yourself whatever you like can't you.
I think "white trash" as a saying isn't actually race specific (though it would seem it given it has 'white' in it), as plenty of white people would say that maliciously to other white people. Despite seeming to be an obvious racial statement, it's not on the same racial level as 'nigger' or 'Paki'. It refers to people on a classist level more so than on a racist level and it's wrong for that reason and I would oppose it. It's not racist as such. But no one's said that anyway have they?
Emily is an overprivilidged bitch who needs to be taught a lesson about what is and isn't right, frankly. I don't give a shit if it's how she's been brought up - it's wrong and that's that, and she needs to change.
Channel 4 have learned from their mistakes and know not to let anything like that fester in the house or outside - they dealt with it quickly and effectively and I think it was the right decision. I don't really think Jo and Jade and Danielle and Jack never got chucked out because they were celebrities necessarily - I think Big Brother didn't know how to handle it and ended up making huge mistakes and handling it badly. What they said in CBB was fucking shameful, as the transcripts show, far far worse than what Emily said, but it all stems from the same thing.
I do think that if anyone says anything homophobic, sexist, classist, etc, it should be punished in the exact same way though. Racism is treated as a more important thing to tackle when the fact is all of these things happen - sexism and classism are far more ingrained in society, and subtler (and therefore worse **I don't mean worse, I mean harder to tackle. Poor phrasing.) than racism, to be honest - but they're ALL terrible, and ALL need to be tackled appropriately and equally. There has been appalling sexism on the show in the past and no one gave a shit. I don't think that tackling racism should be toned down to match that - I think it should be applauded - but I think that the game should be stepped up on tackling all the other forms of prejudice too.
Whoa sorry for the essay
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:39:45 GMT
Post by xenomaniac on Jun 7, 2007 22:39:45 GMT
Racism exists, it will not go away by censoring people.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:43:00 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 7, 2007 22:43:00 GMT
Which is why it was bad that they censored them in CBB, and good that they didn't censor or tolerate it in BB8, no..?
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:43:35 GMT
Post by MoondialSlater on Jun 7, 2007 22:43:35 GMT
Emily: It's not a big deal though is it? Charley: Not for us it ain't. I may end up liking Charley now purely based on this response. Well that didn't last long. For a girl obsessed with telling other housemates they were badly educated every time they argued back to her, she came across as pretty stupid. Yet she was intelligent enough to start mentioning brand names a few seconds afterwards because usually when you do that they can't show the footage because its classed as advertising.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:47:39 GMT
Post by David on Jun 7, 2007 22:47:39 GMT
aw i did feel sorry for her there - people are swearing she's signed up to the KKK over on digitalspy. i am pretty sure she meant it in an non=offensive way but BB had no other option but to remove her i guess. You feel sorry for her? She used one of the most racially-offensive words without understanding any of the context of why Charley and Nicky were upset about it. She insisted when confronted that no one in the house or at home would be offended - well, Emily, I was offended.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 22:54:09 GMT
Post by Muinimula on Jun 7, 2007 22:54:09 GMT
I think it's important, in times like these, to take solace from the following words: Everyone's a little bit racist sometimes Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes If we all could just admit That we a racist a little bit Even though we all know that it's wrong Maybe it would help us get alongThere. Doesn't everyone feel better? In other news, they've announced what's happening in tomorrow's live show: Two more men are going in.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 23:05:02 GMT
Post by David on Jun 7, 2007 23:05:02 GMT
Hmmm, yes they should. It all comes down to taking responsibility for your own actions, something that is sorely lacking in society. The person you met who referred to you as a "fag" - it's all very well and good for them to be shocked and apologetic after the fact, but surely now there is a small doubt that they really don't accept you for who you are, and in fact have an issue with it.
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 23:23:53 GMT
Post by somethingbiblical on Jun 7, 2007 23:23:53 GMT
No good can ever come of the phrase "I'm not racist, but..."
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Emily
Jun 7, 2007 23:41:16 GMT
Post by David Hunter on Jun 7, 2007 23:41:16 GMT
I did smile at the comment on BBBM, 'there are no grey areas in this matter!'
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 0:37:03 GMT
Post by timydamonkey on Jun 8, 2007 0:37:03 GMT
I read a lot of what people were saying about context so puzzled over whether or not I felt context mattered in this situation... it helped for me to relate it to a real life situation I witnessed, I found.
A year or two ago, when I was in high school, we had an African man in to speak to us about something or other (I think it was to do with charity or something, my memory's a bit hazy on that). On the bus on the way home, I recall being rather shocked from the casual way some of my schoolmates threw the 'n-word' around. From the way they were speaking, it was clear it wasn't meant to be a cutting remark - more of a referencial one. But it didn't make me feel it was any better, though I'll say I was more shocked than offended considering it obviously wasn't directed at me.
So I don't consider the context to change the use of the word. And honestly, talk about lacking foresight because there just -hasn't- been a huge racism row over the show or anything. Bit of a lack of common sense, there.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 0:42:31 GMT
Post by frapperia on Jun 8, 2007 0:42:31 GMT
See, to me, Big Brother should be a social experiment, it should be putting people in there and seeing what happens, but thanks to the nature of what reality TV is that was never going to be how it worked. Obviously what Emily did was wrong but it would have been interesting to see how things unfolded if she had been left in the house.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 6:39:24 GMT
Post by xenomaniac on Jun 8, 2007 6:39:24 GMT
See, to me, Big Brother should be a social experiment, it should be putting people in there and seeing what happens, but thanks to the nature of what reality TV is that was never going to be how it worked. Obviously what Emily did was wrong but it would have been interesting to see how things unfolded if she had been left in the house. Exactly, if the house wasn't full of dullards they could have sat her down and explained to her why that word was so inappropriate. Throwing her out is a reactionary move to placate Ofcom, Big Brother dont give a shit about how offended anyone was. Racists exist, if Emily was a fully paid up member of the BNP would that be a reason why she couldn't appear on BB? No because no matter how awful, people are allowed to have views that are different to ours.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 7:47:49 GMT
Post by adamski on Jun 8, 2007 7:47:49 GMT
Nicky's "I'm not running away" comment was quality. she is definitely one to watch.
I can''t believe GMTV were asking this morning "Were C4 right to broadcast the n-word?". Yes of course they were right, it's supposed to be reality TV and that is what really happened.
When Shabnam was dragging out the whole thing, Emily's attempts to get her to shut up were SO cringeworthy!
I have to say, I felt sorry for Emily being interrogated at 3.30am by BB, however what she said is not justified and I guess it's raised a debate about hip-hop culture and it's influence...
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Lisa
Su Pollard
Campaigning for the ghostly return of Toby - always my favourite serial killer
Posts: 454
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 8:09:33 GMT
Post by Lisa on Jun 8, 2007 8:09:33 GMT
Somehow it's worse that it wasn't said in a dancing context as originally reported - at least then it could have been hip-hop culture based, although still unacceptable. But to say it in a general conversation is just mind boggling. Like The Lovely Kate, I don't think she has any black friends and in her head was thinking 'what can I say to show I see myself as one of them? what can I do to be accepted? check me out and my cool ethnic friends' - and then wonders why one of the most racially offensive words causes such great offence.
There are some words you just don't say, and nigger is definitely one of them. I was astounded that Emily couldn't admit that it was offensive and shouldn't be said - just kept trying to justify her use of it. It is not for middle class white girls to decide whether nigger remains an offensive term.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 9:07:49 GMT
Post by Adrian on Jun 8, 2007 9:07:49 GMT
Emily is an overprivilidged bitch I'm just saying..... A
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 9:14:47 GMT
Post by El Capitan on Jun 8, 2007 9:14:47 GMT
I sat down and watched the who thing with my housemates. It was the black one who was the first to say 'Is that it?'
Emily is a silly girl who used a word she didn't understand because, in that context, she thought she could. It was ridiculous of her and she should have been far more sensitive but she simply parroted something she'd heard another housemate said. A rule for none or a rule for all, at the end of the day...
The common consensus when I speak to people about this is that she's been made rather a scapegoat of, Channel 4 shouting 'Look how ethnically aware we are!' with absolutely fuck all regard for whether or not the British public are actually offended. Ofcom are satisfied, that's all that matters isn't it?
I think people saying that what was said was the most ignorant thing they've ever heard is a tad of an exaggeration. To say this is so because she didn't understand the meaning of the word is churlish. I can't imagine that Charley understands either. Maybe if she did she wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to refer to herself thus.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 9:28:13 GMT
Post by Cherubic on Jun 8, 2007 9:28:13 GMT
A rule for none or a rule for all is bollocks.
If a parent touches their young childs genitals in the bath it's probably fine. If some random does it isn't. If two asian guys are having a fight and one calls the other a 'Paki' it's probably not racially motivated. If a white lad does it it almost certainly is. If my flatmate tells me to fuck off and calls me a gayboy that's fine. If someone at work does it it would certainly not be fine.
Equality doesn't mean treat everyone exactly the same. It means treat everyone fairly. Kicking Charley out would have been unfair because she (nor anybody else) would never consider her saying nigger about herself to be racist, whereas Emily should have known that her saying it could be seen that way and that it was therefore against the rules.
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Emily
Jun 8, 2007 9:33:26 GMT
Post by zaffra on Jun 8, 2007 9:33:26 GMT
Big Brother is a game show, not real life.
They set the contestants up to fail and record it all for our pleasure.
This doesn't excuse Emily's behaviour
I think Emily will now find it difficult to loose the tag of being racist and although she was wrong and I didn't like her very much I do feel that BB has to some extent used her as a scapegoat for their own failings in CBB.
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