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Post by Ezzie on Jul 17, 2005 17:14:16 GMT
Yeah! I didn't think that Dumbledore was pelading for his life to be taken, til Nick said that and then I realise that it does fit more into D's character. But I did rememeber the Unbreakable Vow earlier and tried to think how that would um....make Snape good because I LOVE HIM!
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Floss
Jane Asher
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Post by Floss on Jul 17, 2005 19:24:00 GMT
Snape will remain the best character and the sexiest man (or is that just Alan Rickman and that voice..?) no matter whether he is good or purest, dirtiest evil.
Anyone else think that this book - apart from the Dumbledore death bit - was a bit of a non event? There was no gradual build up to a really exciting battle scene, no massive intrigue (didn't really care who the Half Blood Prince was, and the answer was somewhat thrown away) all the middle portion was taken up with Harry's hormones and Ron and Hermione still not snogging.
It felt a little like the second Lord of the Rings, lots of waffle and exposition to get us neatly back to where we started. Harry still has to kill Voldemort or die trying.
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Post by Sean on Jul 17, 2005 19:49:40 GMT
Meh, the last good HP book will probably be the Goblet Of Fire, which is the pinnacle of the series. These last two books have been crap by and large. The series worked because of the eccentric cosiness mixed with outside influences of darkness (rather than just being totally dark which, as with Buffy, takes away most of it's appeal as a universe), the humour, the mysteries, the larger than life characters, and the little details of the wizarding world that give it texture. That's what JK suits best as a writer- she is fucking terrible at angst, evil and romance. The Ginny-Harry romance was TERRIBLY done in this book- suddenly they're going out, and that's it- its never fleshed out or elborated on and you never get a feel of what they're like as a couple, even though Harry's the main character.
Bits I liked: the backstory on Voldemort through the Pensieve. Fleur living in the burrow, which made me chuckle. The Weasley twins' joke shop. The chapter with Dumbledore and Harry in the cave. Harry not being a big annoying block capitals abusing whinger this time. The slimy slug dude, though he wasn't used to full effect. The fact that Trelawney was always described as reeking of cooking sherry. Dumbledore dying- didn't expect it and it was quite well done, I thought. Harry having to feed him the liquid in the cave, which was pleasingly sick for a kid's book.
Bits that were shit: Ron & Hermione. Tedious tedious tedious. If they're going to shag then get it over with. Ron & Lavender- not funny and pointless. Ron and Harry are such gays, they're always avoiding girls who want to fuck them, weirdos. I'm surprised Ginny didn't call Ron a gay when she took the piss out of him for never being kissed at 16 years old. The reason for Tonks' depression: what the fuck ever. The half blood prince- I thought it should have been Voldemort- predictable and a bit boring but at least it would sort of have fitted into Harry learning about Voldemort's past; it being Snape didn't really seem to mean anything. I was annoyed no-one in the book thought of that option either, despite Harry learning lots about Voldemort being a half blood and loving aliases in this book. The fact a good two hundred pages could and should have been cut out. Hagrid- he needs to die.
I think Harry will turn out to be the Gryffindor Horcrux or something (JK's always hinted he's related to the original Gryffindor)- can't quite work out how or why but that's my gut feeling. And then he has to kill himself so Voldemort can be killed, boo hoo, etc etc. Also Snape is definitely definitely on the good side secretly- there's no way Voldemort would have begged otherwise, it just doesn't fit with his character at all to beg to have his life saved. But Harry will kill Snape even after he finds this out, because he's a bit of a cretin really isn't he. Hermione should have the Chosen One. She'd be much more sensible.
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Floss
Jane Asher
Posts: 191
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Post by Floss on Jul 17, 2005 21:21:52 GMT
Also Snape is definitely definitely on the good side secretly- there's no way Voldemort would have begged otherwise, it just doesn't fit with his character at all to beg to have his life saved. But Harry will kill Snape even after he finds this out, because he's a bit of a cretin really isn't he. Hermione should have the Chosen One. She'd be much more sensible. Dumbledore begging, yes? The cretinisation of Harry's character makes me think that JK is tweaking the series to fit with Daniel Radcliffe's utter inability to act convincingly.
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Post by jode* on Jul 18, 2005 8:10:16 GMT
Meh, the last good HP book will probably be the Goblet Of Fire, which is the pinnacle of the series. These last two books have been crap by and large. The series worked because of the eccentric cosiness mixed with outside influences of darkness (rather than just being totally dark which, as with Buffy, takes away most of it's appeal as a universe), the humour, the mysteries, the larger than life characters, and the little details of the wizarding world that give it texture. That's what JK suits best as a writer- she is fucking terrible at angst, evil and romance. The Ginny-Harry romance was TERRIBLY done in this book- suddenly they're going out, and that's it- its never fleshed out or elborated on and you never get a feel of what they're like as a couple, even though Harry's the main character. Bits I liked: the backstory on Voldemort through the Pensieve. Fleur living in the burrow, which made me chuckle. The Weasley twins' joke shop. The chapter with Dumbledore and Harry in the cave. Harry not being a big annoying block capitals abusing whinger this time. The slimy slug dude, though he wasn't used to full effect. The fact that Trelawney was always described as reeking of cooking sherry. Dumbledore dying- didn't expect it and it was quite well done, I thought. Harry having to feed him the liquid in the cave, which was pleasingly sick for a kid's book. Bits that were shit: Ron & Hermione. Tedious tedious tedious. If they're going to shag then get it over with. Ron & Lavender- not funny and pointless. Ron and Harry are such gays, they're always avoiding girls who want to fuck them, weirdos. I'm surprised Ginny didn't call Ron a gay when she took the piss out of him for never being kissed at 16 years old. The reason for Tonks' depression: what the fuck ever. The half blood prince- I thought it should have been Voldemort- predictable and a bit boring but at least it would sort of have fitted into Harry learning about Voldemort's past; it being Snape didn't really seem to mean anything. I was annoyed no-one in the book thought of that option either, despite Harry learning lots about Voldemort being a half blood and loving aliases in this book. The fact a good two hundred pages could and should have been cut out. Hagrid- he needs to die. I think Harry will turn out to be the Gryffindor Horcrux or something (JK's always hinted he's related to the original Gryffindor)- can't quite work out how or why but that's my gut feeling. And then he has to kill himself so Voldemort can be killed, boo hoo, etc etc. Also Snape is definitely definitely on the good side secretly- there's no way Voldemort would have begged otherwise, it just doesn't fit with his character at all to beg to have his life saved. But Harry will kill Snape even after he finds this out, because he's a bit of a cretin really isn't he. Hermione should have the Chosen One. She'd be much more sensible. You have listed LOADS of things you liked, then just a few things you hated (mainly due to the romances which were cringworthy - exactly what they are like when you are 16 - people just snog for the sake of it). I absolutely loved it. Mainly for most the great little things that JK kept popping in. I loved that it was back to good vs. evil (and not all about contests or escaped prisoners or teen angst). There was a perfect mix of new characters/spells/places and mentions of old characters/spells/places. I loved all of the pensieve hopping, and discovering Voldemorts past. I loved Draco in over his head. The ending was awesome. Dumbledore's funeral was done very well - not too sentimental. The prospect of Harry on a hunt next book changes the whole mood of the whole series. Next time we will not see a Summer Holiday/School/Adventure/Ending pattern.
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Post by Becky on Jul 18, 2005 9:38:06 GMT
I enjoyed it but I thought there was a lot missing from it (presumably it will all be cleared up in the last book) and a lot of pointless bits. The only thing its left me wanting to know really is who is R.A.B?
She seems to like the word surrupticiously.
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Post by Nick on Jul 18, 2005 10:18:37 GMT
Sirius's brother, innit?
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Floss
Jane Asher
Posts: 191
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Post by Floss on Jul 18, 2005 10:55:35 GMT
Regalus? Isn't that too obvious? I'd have thought/hoped JK wouldn't have given all three initials if it was going to be that easy to figure out. I think it's more likely to be Borgin or Burke, or someone completely new.
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Post by jode* on Jul 18, 2005 11:03:44 GMT
It's definitely Sirius' bro.
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Post by Ezzie on Jul 18, 2005 11:14:03 GMT
Most of the Harry world seem to think it is him. We'll soon find out. I lvoed it, but it is very different to the other books. I actually thought it could have done with being longer-some stuff did seem rather rushed.
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Post by theactresswhosings on Jul 18, 2005 17:53:01 GMT
Here's what I don't get, was Draco having some kind of dodgy relationship with Moaning Myrtle the toilet ghost?
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Post by Jen on Jul 18, 2005 17:54:02 GMT
You have listed LOADS of things you liked, then just a few things you hated (mainly due to the romances which were cringworthy - exactly what they are like when you are 16 - people just snog for the sake of it). I absolutely loved it. Mainly for most the great little things that JK kept popping in. I loved that it was back to good vs. evil (and not all about contests or escaped prisoners or teen angst). There was a perfect mix of new characters/spells/places and mentions of old characters/spells/places. I loved all of the pensieve hopping, and discovering Voldemorts past. I loved Draco in over his head. The ending was awesome. Dumbledore's funeral was done very well - not too sentimental. The prospect of Harry on a hunt next book changes the whole mood of the whole series. Next time we will not see a Summer Holiday/School/Adventure/Ending pattern. I completely agree. I disagree largely with you Yizzo- I loved the relationship stuff and also Harry and Ginny- I think it was supposed to remain unfinished. It had very much the, "look, I know you need to go and do this, but we fit together great so we can do this when this is all over" which I really loved. I had never thought of the Dumbledore and Snape stuff, that's and interesting theory, but I'm not sure- why was he looking at him with such hate? I don't think that was just acting. But then there has to be a reason why Dumbledore trusts Snape that we don't know about- it can't just be the whole remorse over the prophecy. Maybe Dumbledore could see that Malfoy can be saved, and told Snape psychicly- we know how good a legimens Snape is. There has to be more to this. But I still hope Snape dies explaining it. I think this book compares well to Azkaban- its more about revelations, and linking one path to another then lots of action. Remember Azkaban was Voldemort free too. The last book is going to be action packed. I loved this, and on a whole enjoyed reading it more then Phoenix- Harry was in a better mood, everything just worked and seemed better. Plus Tonks and Lupin? Hell yes!
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Post by Jen on Jul 18, 2005 17:55:58 GMT
Here's what I don't get, was Draco having some kind of dodgy relationship with Moaning Myrtle the toilet ghost? He was crying to her, wasn't he? I think that was more about showing his weakness, showing that at the end of the day, he's just a kid with this massive task, all this pressure and he just can't handle it. Ie, he's not really very evil at all. Although the face stamping was still uncalled for.
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Post by jamie on Jul 18, 2005 18:11:00 GMT
I felt a bit of tension and stuff when Snape did the Unbreakable Bond thing especially when he says 'we can use your sister as the bond holder' does that not mean then if you kill the bond holder then the bond becomes broken?
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Post by jode* on Jul 18, 2005 18:30:16 GMT
A little detail that my sister pointed out (if you are interested in the little details):
Harry needs to find a locket Horcrux - the one he found was fake, put there by R.A.B. (most likely Regulus Black).
In The Order of the Pheonix, when they are tidying 12 Grimmauld Place (The noble house of Black) they find a "locket that they couldn't open". What happened to this locket?
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Post by jode* on Jul 18, 2005 18:37:05 GMT
Thanks Jen. I don't know why people aren't satisfied. The book has everything. You could take all of the best aspects from the other five books, put them into one book and you'd get Half-Blood Prince.
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Post by Ezzie on Jul 18, 2005 19:11:44 GMT
A little detail that my sister pointed out (if you are interested in the little details): Harry needs to find a locket Horcrux - the one he found was fake, put there by R.A.B. (most likely Regulus Black). In The Order of the Pheonix, when they are tidying 12 Grimmauld Place (The noble house of Black) they find a "locket that they couldn't open". What happened to this locket? Oooh, I did forget about this. Interesting. And we know JK likes to put in flippant remarks about things that alter become important-like in the first book with the mention of Sirius.
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Post by Jen on Jul 18, 2005 19:57:46 GMT
Regulus is an interesting idea. To quote from Phoenix : "Was he killed by an Auror?" Harry asked tentatively. "Oh, no" said Sirius. "No ,he was murdered by Voldemort. Or on Voldemorts orders, more likely; I doubt Regulus was every important enough to be killed by Voldermot in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well you don't just hand in your resignation to Voldemort. It's a lifetime of service or death". He also mentions previously that he died 15 years ago- doesn't Dumbledore suggest that Voldemort wanted Harry's death to be his last Horcrux? And wouldn't that incident have been oh, some 15 years previously? However, it might not be him, Jo normally plays her cards closer to her chest then that. NB- In regard to the locket, its one of the things they were throwing out- and amongst the set of things, therefore, that Kreacher was trying to steal.......
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Post by Sean on Jul 18, 2005 20:09:36 GMT
Maybe that dude (forget his name) who Harry sees in Hogsmeade with stuff he stole from Sirius's house nicked it along with the other crap and it's now sold?
EDIT: Wasn't said dude with some shady figure who disappeared as soon as Harry appeared- maybe said figure was a Death Eater who bought the locket and it's now back in the hands of the big V?
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Post by Becky on Jul 19, 2005 8:17:51 GMT
Ron's birthday confused me but maybe I didnt read it properly.
Ron turned 17, which earlier in the book was explained as coming of age (a year earlier than muggles). However, when Ron opens his presents he says something like imagine what I'll get next year when I come of age.
I want to read all 6 books one after the other but I dont have time at the moment. I'm sure lots more things will make sense.
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Post by jode* on Jul 19, 2005 8:21:50 GMT
Ron's birthday confused me but maybe I didnt read it properly. Ron turned 17, which earlier in the book was explained as coming of age (a year earlier than muggles). However, when Ron opens his presents he says something like imagine what I'll get next year when I come of age. I want to read all 6 books one after the other but I dont have time at the moment. I'm sure lots more things will make sense. I don't know about that, probably just a little Rowling mistake, but... Ron shares his birthday with me!
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Floss
Jane Asher
Posts: 191
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Post by Floss on Jul 19, 2005 9:08:26 GMT
Don't have the book in front of me, but doesn't he say something like, I should come of age more often? Pretty sure he gets fab presents because he's 17, which is coming of age. It confused me at the time... Anyone got the book with 'em?
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Post by jode* on Jul 19, 2005 9:38:03 GMT
I have just thought of a new theory, and Ezzie helped push me in this direction so credit there.
It's never explained why Dumbledore's hand was all charred. I assumed at first that it was something to do with the ring.
However, it is the right hand, the one used when making an Unbreakable Vow, that is all charred. Maybe he has made an Unbreakable Vow with someone (Snape?) which went wrong - either because it was an opposite of the one Snape made (and caused something weird to happen like Priori Incantatem) or because the Bonder person pulled out at the last minute.
Hmm.
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Post by Nick on Jul 19, 2005 9:48:58 GMT
Maybe he just had an accident when he was frying some chips. He is very old.
Well, he was until he became completely dead.
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Post by Ezzie on Jul 19, 2005 11:01:43 GMT
Yeah, I know wizards and witches live longer than Muggles, but he's like 150, which I;m pretty sure is old even by magic standards.
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